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Old 04-10-2009, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Nowhere'sville
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Just wanted some other thoughts on the OT and salvation. Salvation is supposed to be belief in Chirst as savior right? So if one believes that Christ is the son of god and died for our sins are they still saved if they don't believe that god was the one who ordered all of the atrocities in the OT?
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Old 04-10-2009, 10:45 AM
 
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If not God, then who?

Do you believe God is sovereign? Did he have the power to stop the so-called attrocities?
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Old 04-10-2009, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Nowhere'sville
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Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
If not God, then who?

Do you believe God is sovereign? Did he have the power to stop the so-called attrocities?
Well that wasn't the question, but okay. Men were so evil and messed up back then that they commited all these horrible acts, made all of those insane, brutal, ridiculous laws and they had to blame it on "god" in order to make themselves feel better about it. Just my thoughts though.
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Old 04-10-2009, 11:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by DaniMae1 View Post
Just wanted some other thoughts on the OT and salvation. Salvation is supposed to be belief in Chirst as savior right? So if one believes that Christ is the son of god and died for our sins are they still saved if they don't believe that god was the one who ordered all of the atrocities in the OT?
I don't see why not but one must ask if that person truly knows the God they love and serve?
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Nowhere'sville
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I don't see why not but one must ask if that person truly knows the God they love and serve?
It's easy to love the NT Jesus. The OT god....not so easy.
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniMae1 View Post
Just wanted some other thoughts on the OT and salvation. Salvation is supposed to be belief in Chirst as savior right? So if one believes that Christ is the son of god and died for our sins are they still saved if they don't believe that god was the one who ordered all of the atrocities in the OT?
Believing in Christ as Savior and believing that He's just the Son of God are two totally different things. (The devil knows exactly who Jesus is and he isn't 'saved'.)

When you believe in Him as Savior, you commit to Him and that trust in Him for salvation brings about a different way of life.

Having said all that, if you truly believe in Christ as Savior and have problems with the Old Testament, I do not think your salvation is in jeopardy. I think there is still an element of 'doubt in God' remaining in a person who can not reconcile the two covenants, but I don't think it would mean you God would reject Christ in you.
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DaniMae1 View Post
Just wanted some other thoughts on the OT and salvation. Salvation is supposed to be belief in Chirst as savior right? So if one believes that Christ is the son of god and died for our sins are they still saved if they don't believe that god was the one who ordered all of the atrocities in the OT?
Yes.... IMO

It's incomprehensible to think anyone can understand God completely. As people who have flesh and bones attached, we are still subject to feelings, limited understanding (of all things), experiences, opinions and our perceived moralities of what's right and wrong. "what sees right to a man"

Example... as poor as it may be, and this is not an attempt to make the OT seem inert;

when we were children/teenagers, what our parents did to us as punishment "clearly" seemed unfair, wrong, unjust, mean, stupid etc. Then parental revenge... we have kids and do basically the same things but do it for their protection, correction, teaching from love. What changed? the circumstance or us? are our "eyes" more open? are we smarter than our parents? or is it a matter of living within the truth?

food for thought
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DaniMae1 View Post
It's easy to love the NT Jesus. The OT god....not so easy.
It's the same God. He hasn't changed. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. I know its difficult because I was once like you but don't take this wrong it's just you don't understand but it's a good step you are taking by questioning as oppose to other Christians who just accept it not really knowing why so they could never explain properly to a non believer.

Remember the bible is a progressive revelation and what you are seeing are certain aspects of His nature being revealed in the Old Testament as opposed to the New Testament. It is true that God was hard on Israel when they disobeyed but did not God forgive and bless them when they repented? God is described as love, kind, merciful in the OT. God had promised to send His Son to Eve and the NT is where His Son is revealed. That's the same God. God is still hands on today passing judgment on all of us when we get out of line from disasters to venerial diseases could be a form of judgment from Him even in our present time.

Trust me you don't want a God that changes His mind because what can stop Him from going against His word and scraping this entire project call "mankind" or boot us all to hell. Rejoice that our God never changes because it gives Him the glory and He would never do anything to take away His glory or else He is not God. He is bound by His nature. Isn't that a comforting thought of why we can put ALL our trust in Him?
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Old 04-10-2009, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Went around the corner & now I'm lost!!!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniMae1 View Post
It's easy to love the NT Jesus. The OT god....not so easy.
I think you are suffering from PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder) from that era when churches taught of this BIG God in the sky ready to step on your neck if you sinned. Like I told our dear loving bestest friend Mystic "PhD" this mornng in another thread. You may want to reread the OT from more loving perspective.
Lets take a look at just Genesis. God lays down the foundation of the heaven and the earth so Adam and Eve have the best place to live with all the comforts of animal to interact with and all the fruit and veggies to eat at will ( with the exception of one "fruit")yet God punishes Adam and Eve for sinning but he never stops loving them; he doesn't destroy Cain for killing Abel eventhough he had every right to; he wait many generations and chooses Noah, the only righteous one in the world to protect and save a remnant of animals and people; the people of Babel build a tower for "themselves" instead of for God yet God still does not destroy them but just confuses thier language; He calls Abram out from under his pagan father's house; God protects and blesses Hagar and Ishmael; and he pulls Lot & his daughters (tried to get the sons- in -law too) out of Sodom & Gomorrah before he destroyed it. None of that sounds like a hateful God to me, does it?

You willhave to get those preconceived notions out of your head and look at God totally different. You literally have to start all over again.
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Old 04-10-2009, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Nowhere'sville
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Originally Posted by eyewrist View Post
I think you are suffering from PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder) from that era when churches taught of this BIG God in the sky ready to step on your neck if you sinned. Like I told our dear loving bestest friend Mystic "PhD" this mornng in another thread. You may want to reread the OT from more loving perspective.
Lets take a look at just Genesis. God lays down the foundation of the heaven and the earth so Adam and Eve have the best place to live with all the comforts of animal to interact with and all the fruit and veggies to eat at will ( with the exception of one "fruit")yet God punishes Adam and Eve for sinning but he never stops loving them; he doesn't destroy Cain for killing Abel eventhough he had every right to; he wait many generations and chooses Noah, the only righteous one in the world to protect and save a remnant of animals and people; the people of Babel build a tower for "themselves" instead of for God yet God still does not destroy them but just confuses thier language; He calls Abram out from under his pagan father's house; God protects and blesses Hagar and Ishmael; and he pulls Lot & his daughters (tried to get the sons- in -law too) out of Sodom & Gomorrah before he destroyed it. None of that sounds like a hateful God to me, does it?

You willhave to get those preconceived notions out of your head and look at God totally different. You literally have to start all over again.
Don't you think you're choosing all the "nice" sounding parts of those stories? I mean after all, god supposedly murdered the entire human population except for those 8. Just for being "wicked". Aren't we all supposed to be evil and wicked? ALL have sinned. Right? If god truly is "no respecter of persons" then those people were no more wicked than today's population.
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