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Old 04-10-2009, 09:46 PM
 
3 posts, read 16,927 times
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Hello out there. This is my first time in a forum. I really need some help with a struggle I am having. I am getting ready to join a Nazarene Church but I am struggling with the fact that I believe that the charismatic gifts that Paul talks about in the New Testament are meant to help us in our lives and church communities today. Does that mean that I can't be a part of a Nazarene Church? I really love the people in this church and have gotten pretty involved and have two children who are getting involved. I didn't know that the Nazarene church might have a problem with charismatic gifts until recently. HELP!
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Old 04-10-2009, 10:09 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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I really know nothing about the Nazarene Church, but I'm curious, what gifts specifically are you referring to and what does the Nazarene Church have against them? It seems to me that if something was present in the Church Jesus Christ established, it would be reasonable to expect it to be a part of His Church today.
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Old 04-10-2009, 11:59 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
702 posts, read 844,157 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyfully living View Post
Hello out there. This is my first time in a forum. I really need some help with a struggle I am having. I am getting ready to join a Nazarene Church but I am struggling with the fact that I believe that the charismatic gifts that Paul talks about in the New Testament are meant to help us in our lives and church communities today. Does that mean that I can't be a part of a Nazarene Church? I really love the people in this church and have gotten pretty involved and have two children who are getting involved. I didn't know that the Nazarene church might have a problem with charismatic gifts until recently. HELP!
It is too bad that many in Institutional Christianity cannot let a life lived in pursuit of God with the Bible in hand as enough for fellowship, that is, barring gross sin. I have trouble describing this simply. But, generally knowing Jesus and working with His word should be enough. Denominations have standards peculiar to whichever sect it is. That is the problem I've had. They're sectarian. You can't just fellowship locally and be a member of the body of Christ. They want you to go along with their doctrines and practices. People who read their Bibles come to have serious problems with that. That is part of why it is expected that more than half the Christians in USA will meet in their homes by 2010 (from polls by Barna.)

Racial dispensationalism is just one more brick in the wall against God. Nazarenes accept the doctrine that was popularized by the Scofield Reference Bible about 1911 ( I think that was when it was 1st published.) No gifts of the Spirit because those belong to the Jews according to the flesh. This racism also changes how the 2nd coming is viewed. That the phrase: "7 years great tribulation" is not anywhere in Scripture should be enough to look close for what it does say, don't expect them to change, it is institutionalized. Though all this is nowhere in the Bible, they teach racially gentile believers will suddenly disappear and then God will turn His attention to the people He really loves, those who are racially Jewish. They will have miracles restored leading to a Millennium with the Jews ruling with Jesus in Jerusalem while we are in heaven, or so is a common take on it. The top 5 Encyclopedias in English say there is no such thing as a Jewish race. Even The Encyclopedia Judeaica says it. Incredibley too, though Christian media claims Jews are such by birth (and we are God's by rebirth) the fact that those in charge of Israel today are not racially descended from Abraham. (Encycl. Brittanica: "Judaism," 1978 edition)

The problem too is one man performing on stage, the same paid professional elite preaching at basically every get-together. This prevents every member participation. The modern "Pastor" can't be found in the Bible. It was what Lutheran Pietists began calling their priests in the late 1500's. There is no order of layman in the Bible. We are supposed to do all sorts of "one-anothering." 58 time "one another" occurs in the N.T. But the way of most of institutional "services" (another non-biblical word) does not permit it. It is death to your life in Christ if you continue subjected to doctrines and practices that are the traditions of men which prevent us from using all the gifts and liberties Christ has given us.

I can bring up many other non-biblical things that are staples of Institutional Christianity. Let me know if you're interested. There is big change at hand for the Church, I believe. God is leading His people out of Babylon. Not only "revival" of spirit, but reFORMation of structure and recovery of doctrine is on the agenda.
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Old 04-11-2009, 02:07 AM
 
Location: Seward, Alaska
2,739 posts, read 7,640,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyfully living View Post
Hello out there. This is my first time in a forum. I really need some help with a struggle I am having. I am getting ready to join a Nazarene Church but I am struggling with the fact that I believe that the charismatic gifts that Paul talks about in the New Testament are meant to help us in our lives and church communities today. Does that mean that I can't be a part of a Nazarene Church? I really love the people in this church and have gotten pretty involved and have two children who are getting involved. I didn't know that the Nazarene church might have a problem with charismatic gifts until recently. HELP!

That is a tough situation...and one I've been through. I don't know if the Nazarene church you go to will allow your beliefs among them or not, but here is my experience:

I used to teach Sunday school to the pre-teen boys class in a Nazarene church in my home town. The pastor was pretty adamantly against any of the charismatic teachings that we see today, (such as the 9 gifts of the Holy Spirit) and wouldn't allow any teaching of it in his church. So was my aunt, who still goes to a Nazarene church about twice a week. To her, any, (and I do mean ANY) supernatural happening or gift of the Holy Spirit is a "work of the devil"...she doesn't believe any supernatural work of God exists for today in the modern church.

It's sad, because they were a wonderful bunch to be around...very kind and loving. They were, and are, great Christians. After awhile though I finally left, because the difference of belief was causing a "division" of sorts, which made me feel uncomfortable and less welcome. If I were you, I'd just hold off on joining for the time being, unless you are really sure about it. For one thing, the Bible says nothing about "joining" any specific denominational church. Not that it is neccessarily "wrong", but it's just not a requirement. It won't hurt to just keep on attending there in the meanwhile, and not be an "official member"...you can still go there.

Generally, to join a denominational church and become a "member" sort of means (to them) that you pretty much agree with their overall doctrine, and agree to support their beliefs. It might be better if they found all this out about your personal beliefs before you join, and not after. Their reaction when you tell them might very well be the key to help you decide what to do. (it did for me) Start with telling the pastor (privately). If he/she is ok with it, then maybe it will work out. On the other hand, if they are not ok with it, then you will need to decide what to do next...

Pray for God's guidance...I'll be praying for you too.


Bud
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Old 04-11-2009, 08:36 AM
 
3 posts, read 16,927 times
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I really appreciate your thoughts everyone. It is a really tough situation. I think I will go and talk with my pastor about it after Easter. I know he has a problem with tongues as a prayer language or a gift used in the service. I can handle it not being used in the service, its just that I need to come to terms with the fact that he/they don't think that the prayer language comes from the Bible. He said that it is easily faked. Which is true. He explained that they believe that the gift of tongues is only used as described in ACTS 2. Didn't have the courage to ask about the rest of the gifts at that time.

I did promise not to bring up prayer tongues when I substitute teach in my adult Sunday school class.

This is so hard for me because we moved to this community from across the state to escape a domestic violence situation. My six yr old son has had so much instability in his life and the idea of moving churches again--I just am not sure how that would affect him.

Also---we had nothing when we moved here and when we got a house and moved in in October the members of this church were so generous and gave us all of the furniture, bedding, dishes, clothes, cleaning supplies etc that we needed. I didn't ask for anything because I didn't want to be taken as going to the church for that reason. Now I would feel terrible about leaving after all of the help and encouragement they have given us.

That is why I thought I would ask about what they believe as a denomination regarding gifts of the Holy Spirit here because I dread hurting them. I have been living with so much joy even during difficult circumstances and I just don't want to hurt anyone.

Joyfully living
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Old 04-11-2009, 11:16 AM
 
37,474 posts, read 25,217,301 times
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Speaking n tongues means speaking in another actual language . . . not some magical prayer gibberish . . . and it always has meant that . . . the ability to actually speak in another person's language without having had to learn it or be raised with it.
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Old 04-11-2009, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,259 posts, read 20,859,174 times
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Speaking n tongues means speaking in another actual language . . . not some magical prayer gibberish . . . and it always has meant that . . . the ability to actually speak in another person's language without having had to learn it or be raised with it.
Well, what do you know, Mystic... we found something to agree on. I believe there is such a thing as speaking in tongues and I believe that on a rare occasion, it exists today. When it does, though, it's for a purpose. It's so that God can use one human being to communicate to another when it would not otherwise be possible. I don't believe it is, or ever has been, just suddenly starting to speak in a language no one understands (not even the speaker) for no purpose other than to just let people know that the speaker has felt the spirit.
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Old 04-11-2009, 04:38 PM
 
Location: California
572 posts, read 1,490,882 times
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I'm a member of the Nazarene Church and they do not speak in tongues during their services..I have more problems with their stand on Sinless Perfection; they believe that you don't sin as your Sanctified by the blood of Christ. Now I believe we're Sanctified, but stll quite capable of sinning...The Apostle Paul considered himself "the chief of all sinners"...I was already a member when I found out about the Sinless Perfection belief....I know that not all in the congregation believed it that way either...Also, they will sprinkle, pour or immerse for baptism...I struggle with that one too as I'm a firm beliver in immersion...

If you love the church and they love the Lord then you might just have to over look a few things you don't understand or agree with...We're all doing the best we can in the body of Christ and we're not all going to agree...This explains so many denominations...
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Old 04-12-2009, 07:11 AM
 
2,065 posts, read 4,160,552 times
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It seems some can even type in tongue...

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Old 04-12-2009, 07:28 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,038,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazel Eyes View Post
I'm a member of the Nazarene Church and they do not speak in tongues during their services..I have more problems with their stand on Sinless Perfection; they believe that you don't sin as your Sanctified by the blood of Christ. Now I believe we're Sanctified, but stll quite capable of sinning...The Apostle Paul considered himself "the chief of all sinners"...I was already a member when I found out about the Sinless Perfection belief....I know that not all in the congregation believed it that way either...Also, they will sprinkle, pour or immerse for baptism...I struggle with that one too as I'm a firm beliver in immersion...

If you love the church and they love the Lord then you might just have to over look a few things you don't understand or agree with...We're all doing the best we can in the body of Christ and we're not all going to agree...This explains so many denominations...
Amen....

Blessings to you....Joyfully Living!!
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