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Old 04-23-2009, 09:24 AM
 
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Just because God says He will save all mankind (1 Tim.2:4-6) does not necessarily mean He won't.
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:30 AM
 
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He does save all mankind. Anyone can go to heaven.
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:51 AM
 
Location: RV Park
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
He does save all mankind. Anyone can go to heaven.
Come boldly to the throne of grace!! Praise His holy name!!!
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
He does save all mankind. Anyone can go to heaven.
A Saviour is one who saves, not just offers salvation.
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:54 AM
 
Location: RV Park
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I was just trying to stay vague, like Fundy.
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Old 04-23-2009, 02:53 PM
 
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Just because Christ said that all mankind will have their lives justified due to His act does not necessarily mean they won't be justified. (Romans 5:18,19).
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Old 04-23-2009, 02:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
I was just trying to stay vague, like Fundy.
me too
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Old 06-26-2014, 03:06 PM
 
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What I find interesting is that when I broach the subject of God saving all mankind with other sincere believers is that some of them feel others don't deserve to be saved.

What do you find wrong with the above response?
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Old 06-26-2014, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
What I find interesting is that when I broach the subject of God saving all mankind with other sincere believers is that some of them feel others don't deserve to be saved.

What do you find wrong with the above response?
The incorrect word in this response is "deserve".
We all know that no one deserves to be saved, except Jesus. So why do so many people slip back into a mindset that places certain people in a higher deserved status?

We all sin. Period. We all have fallen short. Period. We all need a Savior. Period. None of us can save ourselves. Period. None of us can instigate the Savior to act on our behalf. Period. God gives to the Savior, those whom He draws, we don't draw Him to us. Period. While we were yet sinners, Jesus died for us. Period.

So...if God decides to save a sinner like me, who are we to think that he can't save anyone and everyone? Do we REALLY think that God can't figure out a way to separate the sin from the sinner? Do we REALLY believe that God cannot work outside of our concept of time limitations? I ask anyone; did God move you, or did you move God? Somehow, we have been given this idea that God accepts us because we say a sinner's prayer. But if you think about that closely, you are saying that YOU did something to move God! That's an impossibility! What you REALLY did was accept the fact that Jesus died for you. You accepted a fact. And that realization came to you through circumstances that GOD set up before you said the prayer, not by your own decision. Your decision came into effect when you decided to give yourself to Jesus because He bought you. Jesus paid the debt for the whole human race a long time ago. He paid your debt, my debt, Hitler's debt, Stalin's debt...everyone's debt. YOU, nor any of these others had ANYTHING to do with it! Your will cannot stop it. Your accepting Jesus has nothing to do with it. Jesus' death justifies mankind. Accepting that fact is what you do with a prayer, and it sets you on the road to sanctification. Your will makes the decision of when you begin the sanctification process. The only thing that your will changes is timing. It's not a matter of WHETHER a person will accept Jesus; it's only a matter of WHEN he will start being sanctified. And God is an expert in using a person's stubborn will to work out the stubborn wills of others. These things take time, and there is not enough time in most of our lives to complete these things, but there are no time limitations given by God on these matters. God's will is to save everyone. He said it in the Bible. Are we so arrogant, (or ignorant), to think that our puny wills can over-ride the plan of God? Do we think that God is in a battle with a force of evil that is capable of overcoming His power or intelligence? Joseph, the son of Jacob said it well when he spoke to his brothers about the evil deed of them wanting to kill him, then selling him into Egyptian slavery, then becoming a type of savior to the whole Hebrew people, when he said, "You meant it for evil, but God meant it for good." This is how God works! He USES evil to bring about good!

Now, if God has the power to do anything and everything, do we believe that God cannot separate sin from the sinner by using His purifying power of fire? Do we realize that the Lake of Fire proceeds from the Throne, and that that very fire is part of God? It says that God is a consuming fire! Do you realize that YOU will spend eternity as a saint IN that consuming fire, because it is an attribute of Himself that purifies everything around Himself? The Lake of Fire is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing! Do we realize that the reason Moses was not allowed to see God's face was because he would have been consumed? Has God changed? Malachi 3 says that He is a refining fire and like fuller's soap, and who will be able to abide the day of His coming, and stand when He appears. What makes us think that we will be floating on some heavenly cloud? Refining fire and fuller's soap is for cleansing. Cleansing does it's work by destroying the bad, but not the whole object!
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Old 06-26-2014, 04:35 PM
 
472 posts, read 307,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trumpethim View Post
The incorrect word in this response is "deserve".
We all know that no one deserves to be saved, except Jesus. So why do so many people slip back into a mindset that places certain people in a higher deserved status?

We all sin. Period. We all have fallen short. Period. We all need a Savior. Period. None of us can save ourselves. Period. None of us can instigate the Savior to act on our behalf. Period. God gives to the Savior, those whom He draws, we don't draw Him to us. Period. While we were yet sinners, Jesus died for us. Period.

So...if God decides to save a sinner like me, who are we to think that he can't save anyone and everyone? Do we REALLY think that God can't figure out a way to separate the sin from the sinner? Do we REALLY believe that God cannot work outside of our concept of time limitations? I ask anyone; did God move you, or did you move God? Somehow, we have been given this idea that God accepts us because we say a sinner's prayer. But if you think about that closely, you are saying that YOU did something to move God! That's an impossibility! What you REALLY did was accept the fact that Jesus died for you. You accepted a fact. And that realization came to you through circumstances that GOD set up before you said the prayer, not by your own decision. Your decision came into effect when you decided to give yourself to Jesus because He bought you. Jesus paid the debt for the whole human race a long time ago. He paid your debt, my debt, Hitler's debt, Stalin's debt...everyone's debt. YOU, nor any of these others had ANYTHING to do with it! Your will cannot stop it. Your accepting Jesus has nothing to do with it. Jesus' death justifies mankind. Accepting that fact is what you do with a prayer, and it sets you on the road to sanctification. Your will makes the decision of when you begin the sanctification process. The only thing that your will changes is timing. It's not a matter of WHETHER a person will accept Jesus; it's only a matter of WHEN he will start being sanctified. And God is an expert in using a person's stubborn will to work out the stubborn wills of others. These things take time, and there is not enough time in most of our lives to complete these things, but there are no time limitations given by God on these matters. God's will is to save everyone. He said it in the Bible. Are we so arrogant, (or ignorant), to think that our puny wills can over-ride the plan of God? Do we think that God is in a battle with a force of evil that is capable of overcoming His power or intelligence? Joseph, the son of Jacob said it well when he spoke to his brothers about the evil deed of them wanting to kill him, then selling him into Egyptian slavery, then becoming a type of savior to the whole Hebrew people, when he said, "You meant it for evil, but God meant it for good." This is how God works! He USES evil to bring about good!

Now, if God has the power to do anything and everything, do we believe that God cannot separate sin from the sinner by using His purifying power of fire? Do we realize that the Lake of Fire proceeds from the Throne, and that that very fire is part of God? It says that God is a consuming fire! Do you realize that YOU will spend eternity as a saint IN that consuming fire, because it is an attribute of Himself that purifies everything around Himself? The Lake of Fire is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing! Do we realize that the reason Moses was not allowed to see God's face was because he would have been consumed? Has God changed? Malachi 3 says that He is a refining fire and like fuller's soap, and who will be able to abide the day of His coming, and stand when He appears. What makes us think that we will be floating on some heavenly cloud? Refining fire and fuller's soap is for cleansing. Cleansing does it's work by destroying the bad, but not the whole object!
You are correct. We do not chose God, he chooses us. John 6:44. Will all people be saved. God says those who believe in his son Jesus will be given life. Is that mean we are saved if we believe in Jesus? Lets say it's the first step. If we believe in Jesus, we will not be destroyed when Jesus returns. We will become Property of Jesus for 1,000 years. During this time the earth will become a paradise, and we will receive bodies, and minds like Adam, and Eve...perfect. At the end of the 1,000 years Satan will be let lose, and we will be tested in a perfect condition. if we stay loyal to God, we will live forever.
If we were tested in our present condition, we would all fail.
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