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Old 05-02-2009, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Oxford, OH
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Billy Gramham once said, "not only do I believe every word is true in the Bible...but I even believe that the leather is genuine.
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Old 05-02-2009, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
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The biggest problem, in my opinion, is people who claim the Bible is our authority for faith and practice but don't know how to implement that authority. If you do not know what is or is not written, you, for all practical purposes, do NOT have any "authority" from the Bible. For most like this it is what they have heard said over and over by the "Christians" around them, particularly media personalities these days. The secret is to USE CONCORDANCES to find out if something is or is not written. The other side of this is to be careful to bow your stiff neck, to "adjust to increasing light as rapidly as possible" (Finney.) Make your confession of faith with the actual words God the Holy Spirit chose to make His revelation known. Much deception comes from using other words, phrases and categories not in the Bible. If it's not there we don't have to believe it.

The best literal version is the Concordant Literal Version and it's available free on the internet, though a paper copy is worth it, it is not very well known and has been falsely accused by some who are unaquainted with its principles of translation and the felicitous result. Its concordance is like using a Greek concordance because of the way the version was done.

A Literal Translation is not the same as a literal interpretation. Here's an excerpt from something else I wrote that addresses "interpretation" of the Bible:

"The Bible, being a book of WORDS, is entirely symbolical! The letters "c-h-a-i-r" cannot be sat upon. They cast a SPELL in your consciousness to conjure up the awareness of a "chair." Depending on the extent of your development, as far as what Scripture produces in you (though more practically what the occasion calls for) this can evoke a carnal or worldly emphasis in an outer court interpretation of something for your body to _sit_ in; or, it may cause a thought of a psychological abstraction, a position in relation to a collegial body (corresponding to the holy place,) like the _chair_man of a department; or, something more spiritual in nature (the third realm of the tabernacle in analogy,) like what the implications are when God makes us who were dead to be alive and awakened "and _seats_ us together among the celestials (or, in the heavenlies,) in Christ Jesus..." (Eph 2:6) Words are symbols; hence, the Bible, being a book of words, is entirely a book of symbols. There are various legitimate understandings of these symbols or words. Like the largely time oriented interpretations of the Revelation: historicist, preterist, futurist, spiritual or symbolic, all have some validity without being "the last word" on the meaning of the text. While we know what is meant by a "literal" interpretation, there can actually only be interpretation since we are dealing completely with symbols. I believe in each letter and every word of the original as directly God inspired."
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Old 05-02-2009, 07:23 PM
 
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I don't believe in a literal translation of the bible.
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Old 05-02-2009, 08:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquila View Post
If God wrote His laws upon our hearts, why the need to check them against what the Bible says? Hebrews 8:10-12.
Because I can't trust my heart all the time....remember, I believe ALL the bible, not just a few verses I might toss at someone trying to catch them in some kind of trap.
He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.' "Mark 7:20-23
(Emphasis mine, for obvious reasons)
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Old 05-02-2009, 08:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
Because I can't trust my heart all the time....remember, I believe ALL the bible, not just a few verses I might toss at someone trying to catch them in some kind of trap.
He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.' "Mark 7:20-23
(Emphasis mine, for obvious reasons)
Sure, but that doesn't contradict what I said. I think you're missing the point. If God wrote His laws on our hearts, why do we need the Bible to tell us what those laws are?

It's not the same as going against what our heart says.
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Old 05-02-2009, 08:52 PM
 
7,780 posts, read 12,730,934 times
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Originally Posted by aquila View Post
Sure, but that doesn't contradict what I said. I think you're missing the point. If God wrote His laws on our hearts, why do we need the Bible to tell us what those laws are?

It's not the same as going against what our heart says.
If my heart tells me it's OK to steal (as it can, as shown above) God's Word is there as the standard for me to see past what I might think is written on my heart.
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Old 05-02-2009, 08:56 PM
 
28,906 posts, read 42,531,188 times
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Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
I just finished a year-long biblical studies course, and the creation of the Bible was far too convoluted, and the translations far too imprecise to lend credence to a literalist view. Heck, the differences between the Latin and Greek translations alone are extensive. Add things like inconsistencies in manuscripts and you really run into problems. For example, Paul's supposed banning of women from the pulpit simply does not appear in some of the earliest texts and, in another text, only appears in the margins--not the text itself.

Considering that Christianity didn't even has the Gospels until 70-80 years after Christ's death, and that there was not a coherent canon of the faith until the fourth century, it's really hard to say that God sat down and scribbled it out, unless you're willing to say that God was a really sloppy writer in some places.
Need an example? Verses 7:53-8:11 of John were simply not present in the earliest manuscripts. So what happened here? Did God say, "Whoopsie! Let me revise this thing..."
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Old 05-02-2009, 09:02 PM
 
1,597 posts, read 1,451,747 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Need an example? Verses 7:53-8:11 of John were simply not present in the earliest manuscripts. So what happened here? Did God say, "Whoopsie! Let me revise this thing..."
Astonishing, isn't it? If the earliest and BEST manuscripts don't contain those verses, then why don't Bible literalists get that? I sometimes wonder if they actually read the Bible with their own open eyes and open minds, or if they allow others to tell them what it says. I stopped doing that. Just recently my eyes were opened to the reality of what some verses say. Somehow when you actually LOOK at the original meanings of words and realize what they actually say, it's different than what fundamentalist pastors TELL you it says.
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Old 05-02-2009, 09:04 PM
 
28,906 posts, read 42,531,188 times
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Originally Posted by aquila View Post
Astonishing, isn't it? If the earliest and BEST manuscripts don't contain those verses, then why don't Bible literalists get that? I sometimes wonder if they actually read the Bible with their own open eyes and open minds, or if they allow others to tell them what it says. I stopped doing that. Just recently my eyes were opened to the reality of what some verses say. Somehow when you actually LOOK at the original meanings of words and realize what they actually say, it's different than what fundamentalist pastors TELL you it says.
Well, the other thing that I don't understand is that each of the first four chapters of the New Testament are titled, "The Gospel according to..."
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Old 05-02-2009, 09:28 PM
 
7,780 posts, read 12,730,934 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquila View Post
Astonishing, isn't it? If the earliest and BEST manuscripts don't contain those verses, then why don't Bible literalists get that? I sometimes wonder if they actually read the Bible with their own open eyes and open minds, or if they allow others to tell them what it says. I stopped doing that. Just recently my eyes were opened to the reality of what some verses say. Somehow when you actually LOOK at the original meanings of words and realize what they actually say, it's different than what fundamentalist pastors TELL you it says.
You're not making much sense really.

Why don't you tell me how, if I want rebell against my fundamentalist pastor and 'open my eyes', does removing those verses from my bible change anything the scriptures say?

It's one story.

So discredit it if you'd like, but my bible and Jesus redemption for us and instructions to us are still intact.

If you want to make the scriptures say what you want them to say, knock yourself out. Doesn't change a thing about what the words in the bible actually say.
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