U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 05-04-2009, 01:19 AM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 4,620,684 times
Reputation: 624

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by roneb View Post
Robin, As I have stated in another post, I truly respect your methodology. But I must also say that very few of the people I have met who take a literalist view of scripture do so in such an educated and inquiring manner. Most haven't delved beyond whatever translation they own or what they heard in church last Sunday.
You are right, I know many well meaning Christians who do not look past their prefered version, but I also know of some who look so far past what is actually there that they loose the truth and accept the lie.

You make some good points as I have shared in other threads, what we must do, as those willing to look and see the truth, is share with others how they too can see what we see and experience what we experience as well as combat the guidance of deceiving spirits.

Many do not trully understand what literal means when it comes to the Bible. It is not just one Bible translation, it is as many as we can get so we can see the original intent by cross reference. Seek out Concodances, dictionaries, and literal word for word translations. If possible learn the original languages so as to understand that many words of those languages are so complex as to have many meanings that one must determone thru the proper study of context as well as the relation to all verses pertaining to a particular subject. Like I have said many times, let the Bible interprit the Bible, and there are plenty of resources with which to test the spirits which seek to guide you whether for good or bad. As we know there is much in this world that is called good but is evil and much that is called evil which is good.
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-04-2009, 03:15 AM
 
2,255 posts, read 4,591,376 times
Reputation: 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquila View Post
So then explain to me why the Bible says God wrote His laws upon our hearts. WHAT laws were written upon our hearts?
When the Apostle Paul wrote the letter of Hebrews, he did so with Jewish Christians in mind. Paul was extremely authoritive on the Mosaic Law (which was the Old Law Covenant with the nation of Israel), after all he was a very scholarly Pharisee at one time under the schooling of the best instructors of the time before his conversion to Christianity. The Jewish Christians were under persections and challenges to their ministry in the Land of the Jews. Paul's letter gave them instruction about the law and how to best reason with Jews they encountered. Previously Paul had written to the Galation Christians and explained that the law was merely a tutor leading to Christ. Paul was helping the Jewish Christians who already had an understanding of the Mosaic Law, to be more effective ministers to Jewish Christians, since they encountered unique & specific obsticales in their preaching work that perhaps Gentile Christians did'nt face.

A consideration of the features of both the Old & New Covenants and the circumstances of those brought into the convenant relationship with God sheds light on the difference.

In the generations after the nation of Israel's God Jehovah brought them into that convenant introduced to them by Moses, the Israelites came into this Law Covenant relationship with their God for no other reason than their birth. They did not have to make a personal decision to be servants of the God Jehovah. Accordingly, their heart appreciation was not a prerequisite for being one of God's covenant people. Yet throughout the course of Israel's history, there was always a minority who not only understood God's Law, but also cultivated heartfelt appreciation for it. Concerning such a righteous one of Israel, Psalm 37:31 - "King James Version" has this to say:
Quote:
"The Law of his God is in his heart, none of his step shall slide."
Most Israelites never really took time to understand the law and develope heart appreciation. Most did'nt get the sense of what the sacrifices were all about. Paul said at Colossians 2:17 - "Amplified Bible" that the old Law covenant was merely a shadow of what was to come, that reality (Mosaic Law) was pointing synbolically to Christ.
Quote:
"Such [things] are only a shadow of the things that are to come, and they only have symbolic value. But the reality (the substance, the solid fact of what is foreshadowed, the body of it) belongs to Christ."
Paul even further showed at 2 Corinthians 3rd chapter that the majority of Israelites were no more than fleshly materialistic minded people with no heartfely appraciation for anything of spiritual value. After giving an illustration of how Moses would always have to put a veil on his face before speaking to the Israelites, Paul explains the real reason was not so much as the veil being on Moses face, as it was in reality over their hearts. Notice 2 Corinthians 3:15 - "Amplified Bible"
Quote:
"Yes, down to this [very] day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies upon their minds and hearts."
Getting back to your mention of Hebrews 8:10-12, Paul was actually quoting Jeremiah 31:31-34 - "American Standard Bible"
BibleGateway.com - Passage Lookup: Jeremiah 31:31-34;
So the Israel being spoken about at Hebrews was not fleshly Israel any longer, but new spiritual Israel which now included Gentiles. There's also another reason Paul quoted this to Jewish Christians. The Pharisees of those ancient times were fond lovers of rules. The accumulated heaps of rules and produced tons of Hypocrites. It is a human failing to think that problems can be fixed by making additional rules. Our life's experiences should make it plain that reaching the heart is the real key. Being inscribed on the heart, rather than just the mind, those rules would be less likely to cease being loved by those who obeyed them. Many examples of self-sacrificing love could be found among those with heartfelt appreciation. There is no written law code that identifies God's people today. People actually putting God's laws, standards and principals to practice should be the proof.

Jesus also set the standard for accepting the bible as a foundation for teaching and belief. During his entire ministry he quoted from it as a foundation of his teachings. To say we don't need the bible, is to say we know better than Christ. This is why there are so many religious demoninations today because charistatic individuals claiming visions and all truth must come through them. They get followers because such teachings they espouse appeal to a few. Hence there becomes no foundational basis for uniting many Christians together. This is evident today. Most translations we have available today have the same basic meanings. Small differences in wording or grammar are the only real differences. Although that's not to say some have attempted to corrupt it.

The International Society of Bible Collectors - Home
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-04-2009, 05:45 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 11,832,205 times
Reputation: 744
Quote:
Originally Posted by juj View Post
Many folks claim that they believe in a literal translation of the Bible and those who don't are in grave danger. Some people believe that there are sections which are not to be taken literally and are only meant to teach principles and truth. Explain why you think your position is correct.
Either you believe in ALL the bible or you believe in none of it. If you can't believe in all of it, you might as well throw it away and come to the realization that you are living a lie.

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 05-04-2009 at 05:55 AM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-04-2009, 06:42 AM
 
11,145 posts, read 12,714,103 times
Reputation: 4209
Quote:
You are right, I know many well meaning Christians who do not look past their prefered version,
Why do you exempt yourself from this phrase? Why do you not consider the possibility that YOU do not look past your preferred version? What if you are only scratching the surface and assuming you have the whole package opened?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-04-2009, 12:18 PM
 
1,139 posts, read 1,403,092 times
Reputation: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Either you believe in ALL the bible or you believe in none of it. If you can't believe in all of it, you might as well throw it away and come to the realization that you are living a lie.
There is a difference between believing all of it, and believing all of it as literal.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-04-2009, 12:19 PM
 
1,139 posts, read 1,403,092 times
Reputation: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquila View Post
And after some things I've learned recently, I'm starting to wonder if that story has been tinkered with over the ages. I no longer put my blind trust in what the church says.
Can I ask you what the pillar of truth is?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-04-2009, 12:35 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 11,832,205 times
Reputation: 744
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNick View Post
There is a difference between believing all of it, and believing all of it as literal.
I have no clue what that means. If it is not literal what is it? now obvious there is figure of speech but how else do we read the bible?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-04-2009, 01:50 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 11,184,055 times
Reputation: 987
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Either you believe in ALL the bible or you believe in none of it. If you can't believe in all of it, you might as well throw it away and come to the realization that you are living a lie.
It is one thing to believe all the Bible and another to try to apply it all to us of the nations. We of the nations are not under law, therefore the law of the Old Testament nor the sermon on the mount applies to us of the Nations.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-04-2009, 01:53 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 11,832,205 times
Reputation: 744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
It is one thing to believe all the Bible and another to try to apply it all to us of the nations. We of the nations are not under law, therefore the law of the Old Testament nor the sermon on the mount applies to us of the Nations.
If the Law doesn't apply to you. How do you know you are a sinner?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-04-2009, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
10,703 posts, read 29,542,361 times
Reputation: 6540
If you believe in a literal translation of the bible then you must be a confused person.
The bible contradicts itself more then any book I have read so therefore how can you believe in a literal translation of it?

If you do then please tell me you know about the unicorns in the bible and that it speaks of men doing the dishes (as a man wipeth a dish).

Moderator cut: deleted as per sticky

Last edited by june 7th; 05-04-2009 at 04:17 PM.. Reason: Pls refer to sticky indicating "Google is your friend" will be deleted and/or infracted
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 - Top