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I actually wonder how many people He has chosen and they have rejected Him. I mean look at the arguements we have around here, people claiming the know God loves them, yet in many cases they reject Him by their actions and choices. We all do this at times, but some are not willing to repent and turn to the Lord. I mean just look at the prosperity preachers, they know they are being poor stewards with God blessings yet they justify it.
Amen,
Pick up the phone in other words we didn't call our selves He called us. We didn't create Him he created us there for he is made know to all because he created all, but some folks are to busy with the world to anwser the phone, leave a message I'll get back to you some day hopefully before the line is disconnected.
" John 15:16 - Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you"... ??? if this applies to everybody exactly what is the purpose of hearing, believing, and obeying the qospel???
To be conformed into His image, and to cooperate with His will - that's like asking a child why they would need to obey their parent, when the parent has the power to take the child wherever He/she wants to. It's a lot easier on the kid if they do as they're told.
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Originally Posted by Towhee
What was the purpose of Jesus suffering and dying on the cross???
The same reason He paid for you and me - He paid for everyone.
All is out of God according to Romans 11:36, so this tells me that even our ability to choose Him is out of Him. It is not of ourselves. It is ultimately the work of God. How many can say that we came to Jesus all on our own? Did God have something to do with this? Didn't something influence our wills to come to Him? Didn't something draw us to the Lord? I believe that it is all the work of God and if we choose Him, we only choose Him because of His influence and power. We are dead and lost in sin until God sheds His light upon us.
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To be conformed into His image, and to cooperate with His will - that's like asking a child why they would need to obey their parent, when the parent has the power to take the child wherever He/she wants to. It's a lot easier on the kid if they do as they're told.
" John 15:16 - Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you"... ??? if this applies to everybody exactly what is the purpose of hearing, believing, and obeying the qospel??? What was the purpose of Jesus suffering and dying on the cross???
To reconcile us to God.
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Yes, God does "choose" us, but it is those who hear, believe, and obey. Those are the ones He chooses!
What? So ,do we hear , believe and obey first or does God choose us first then we hear ,believe ,and obey?
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Once again, it is some obscure verses that are being turned into a doctrine! What will you do with all the rest?
Obscure verses?
Like ...
I`m the potter,
I chose you,
Some vessels he makes for honor and some for dishonor,
It is GOD who works in you both to will and do his good pleasure
It is not of him that wills or him that runs but of God that shows mercy
I will have mercy on whom i will have mercy
Why does God find fault, for who has resisted his will
Who are you oh man, to reply against God. should the thing that is formed
say to he who formed it, why have you made me thus
for he has concluded them ALL in unbelief that he may have mercy on ALL
No man can come to me except the Father draw him
He works ALL things after the council of his own will
For in him we live, move and have our being
The way of man is NOT OF HIMSELF.It is not in man that walks to direct his steps
Man`s goings ARE OF THE LORD, how then can a man understand his own way
The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the Lord
for there is a time for every purpose and every work under heaven
There is no man that has power over the spirit to retain the spirit, neither has he power in the day of death
Seeing his days are numbered, you have appointed his bounds that he cannot pass
The creature was made SUBJECT TO VANITY NOT OF HIS OWN WILL but by REASON OF HIM who has SUBJECTED THE SAME IN HOPE
you mean a FEW OBSCURE verses like these? There are plenty more, but you get the point
I have been severely struggling with pre destination because I just don't see anywhere in the bible where it says, we choose God. Moses didn't choose, the disciples didn't choose, Jonah didn't neither did Paul etc.... When I became a Christian, it hit me like a ton of bricks, it was as if blinders had been taken off and a huge weight lifted off my back so it only made sense to go to the light and stay in the light. Now I admit I made the decision to commit my life to Christ, whatelse could I do? He now had a hold on me but I have never felt that I chose Him. I felt He chose me.
What do you think? and scripture would be nice. Thank you
OK...fundy where are you? usually when you start a thread your immediately responding to other's post!!!
What's going on????
I`m the potter,
I chose you,
Some vessels he makes for honor and some for dishonor,
It is GOD who works in you both to will and do his good pleasure
It is not of him that wills or him that runs but of God that shows mercy
I will have mercy on whom i will have mercy
Why does God find fault, for who has resisted his will
Who are you oh man, to reply against God. should the thing that is formed
say to he who formed it, why have you made me thus
for he has concluded them ALL in unbelief that he may have mercy on ALL
No man can come to me except the Father draw him
He works ALL things after the council of his own will
For in him we live, move and have our being
The way of man is NOT OF HIMSELF.It is not in man that walks to direct his steps
Man`s goings ARE OF THE LORD, how then can a man understand his own way
The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the Lord
for there is a time for every purpose and every work under heaven
There is no man that has power over the spirit to retain the spirit, neither has he power in the day of death
Seeing his days are numbered, you have appointed his bounds that he cannot pass
The creature was made SUBJECT TO VANITY NOT OF HIS OWN WILL but by REASON OF HIM who has SUBJECTED THE SAME IN HOPE
you mean a FEW OBSCURE verses like these? There are plenty more, but you get the point
Amen, and those who hear God, can only hear God because of His influence. We know of Jesus because the scriptures tell us who Jesus is. We must hear and in the days of the Lord and the apostles, people had to hear of Jesus in order to come to Jesus. God says that His word will not return void. This is a promise so this tells me that it is the direct result of His doing. If we say that it is the result of our choice, then we get the credit. But all glory and credit goes to God.
Here is a very relevant passasge to me. John 1:63-65. The scriptures say that Jesus knew from the beginning who would believe and who would not believe. God knew this. He knows all things. And Jesus says that no one could come to Him, unless it had been granted by the Father. God bless.
If we say that it is the result of our choice, then we get the credit. But all glory and credit goes to God.
Amen shana, and that is the one thing the church cannot reconcile to their theology NO MATTER HOW HARD THEY TRY. They can twist scripture till judgement day but ALL the GLORY goes to God and God alone.
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Here is a very relevant passasge to me. John 1:63-65. The scriptures say that Jesus knew from the beginning who would believe and who would not believe. God knew this. He knows all things. And Jesus says that no one could come to Him, unless it had been granted by the Father. God bless.
Yes, he knows all things because he preordained ALL things. He is in Control.
All is out of God according to Romans 11:36, so this tells me that even our ability to choose Him is out of Him. It is not of ourselves. It is ultimately the work of God. How many can say that we came to Jesus all on our own? Did God have something to do with this? Didn't something influence our wills to come to Him? Didn't something draw us to the Lord? I believe that it is all the work of God and if we choose Him, we only choose Him because of His influence and power. We are dead and lost in sin until God sheds His light upon us.
I wonder about this question constantly also.
I had dreams...if I didn't have the dreams and if He had not came to me in the way He did...would I still be as faithful of a follower? I hope so...but do I really know? He left me with no room for doubt.
As I read the bible, I see many cases talking about choosing the right path.
From reading...I always come away with the perspective that God is here. He wants us all to accept him. To believe Jesus came to die for our sins...it is our choice.
Like some, He did indeed hit me with that ton of bricks...what if he hadn't?
I just thank God that He has done for me and others as He has and I am elated, to say the least, that He opened my eyes.
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usually when you start a thread your immediately responding to other's post!!!
