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Old 05-09-2009, 12:04 AM
 
Location: Idaho
284 posts, read 245,088 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax View Post
Shalom

Vayiqra ="and he commanded" = Leviticus.

Why do some people bring up the ancient Jewish "Holiness Code" completely out of context ONLY when they want to bash gays? All it shows is the ignorance and hypocrisy of the person quoting it.
Nice

You are ashkenazic I'm guessing or you have had this conversation before? I wasn't saying anything out of context as you quoted that was a mitzvah but you know that right? Jews are not to speak of the sinner only the sin stop confusing the two after all Jesus reminded us that God knows are hearts and always has. Some people out there claiming yashar may not be at heart. We should strive to purge sin from our heart period no matter what the sin is.
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Old 05-09-2009, 01:18 AM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,191 posts, read 3,199,072 times
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Moderator cut: orphaned

You will know them by their fruit. My father was an alcoholic and died from the disease and he would have been the first person to tell you to stay away from alcohol and he admitted he was wrong but could not stop. That is what addiction does to you and many of the sins we address are nothing more than addictions we must all overcome. The big difference is that some admot they are wrong while others want to force everyont to accept their sin as normal.

Last edited by Alpha8207; 05-09-2009 at 09:44 AM..
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Old 05-09-2009, 01:21 AM
 
Location: southern california
49,725 posts, read 46,804,402 times
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dont wana be rude. but inquiring clarifies no?

Last edited by Huckleberry3911948; 05-09-2009 at 02:11 AM..
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Old 05-09-2009, 02:03 AM
 
15,576 posts, read 5,421,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirdparty View Post
Nice

You are ashkenazic I'm guessing or you have had this conversation before? I wasn't saying anything out of context as you quoted that was a mitzvah but you know that right? Jews are not to speak of the sinner only the sin stop confusing the two after all Jesus reminded us that God knows are hearts and always has. Some people out there claiming yashar may not be at heart. We should strive to purge sin from our heart period no matter what the sin is.
No, I'm not Jewish at all let alone an Ashkenazi Jew, I'm am ex-Catholic actually , but I do a LOT of reading and love researching topics I'm interested in. I know you personally didn't take anything out of context. Sorry if it appeared I was taking you to task- I wasn't.

As you appeared to either be Jewish or at least knew more about Leviticus than some of the people on this thread, I was asking you about the particular Christians who DO continually bring up one line from the hundreds of laws in the Holiness Code purely to bash gays. Who on earth lives by all laws in that Code? Certainly not Christians and certainly not any modern Christians. It was never meant for them. So unless someone is an extremely Orthodox Jew who still tries to follow those holiness laws, it's pure hypocrisy to bring up that line. Especially when it's clear they don't even understand the meaning of the word to'ebah and have no clue about WHY those laws were introduced.

again... Shalom!
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Old 05-09-2009, 03:07 AM
 
1,597 posts, read 653,855 times
Reputation: 487
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax View Post
No, I'm not Jewish at all let alone an Ashkenazi Jew, I'm am ex-Catholic actually , but I do a LOT of reading and love researching topics I'm interested in. I know you personally didn't take anything out of context. Sorry if it appeared I was taking you to task- I wasn't.

As you appeared to either be Jewish or at least knew more about Leviticus than some of the people on this thread, I was asking you about the particular Christians who DO continually bring up one line from the hundreds of laws in the Holiness Code purely to bash gays. Who on earth lives by all laws in that Code? Certainly not Christians and certainly not any modern Christians. It was never meant for them. So unless someone is an extremely Orthodox Jew who still tries to follow those holiness laws, it's pure hypocrisy to bring up that line. Especially when it's clear they don't even understand the meaning of the word to'ebah and have no clue about WHY those laws were introduced.

again... Shalom!
Indeed Christians are NOT bound to keep any of the OT laws...particularly not Gentile Christians. Furthermore, if I might add a note to what you've said, Jaymax....in the New Testament, it states in James 2 that if we break even one law, we are guilty of breaking it all. The implication is that if we are going to rely on the law to save us, we have to keep ALL the laws...and that includes not eating pork or shrimp, not wearing clothes of mixed fabrics, not planting two kinds of seed in the same field, men are forbidden from trimming their beards, etc.
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Old 05-09-2009, 07:51 AM
 
9,999 posts, read 8,829,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
You will know them by their fruit. My father was an alcoholic and died from the disease and he would have been the first person to tell you to stay away from alcohol and he admitted he was wrong but could not stop. That is what addiction does to you and many of the sins we address are nothing more than addictions we must all overcome. The big difference is that some admot they are wrong while others want to force everyont to accept their sin as normal.
This is a good point and I think it's just a matter of perspective.

We have turned the concept of "sin" into this horrific act that will be judged in the afterlife. It will not. BUT, no person who elevates her awareness to a level at which she exists in pure love has any need or desire to numb herself with alcohol or drugs or to rely on selling drugs to get through. Likewise, no such person has any need or desire to lie, cheat, steal, and all the other sins we have. I point to yogis and other enlightened masters as an example, for whom I believe Christ was one.

It may seem subtle, but your approach to sin is very patriarchal and fear based. It derives from a fear that someone is going to be upset with us. My approach to sin lies within the individual's self interest and is rooted in love, knowing that there is no judgment yet knowing that numbing oneself in stuff like alcohol or fornication is ultimate not in an individual's highest self interest.
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Old 05-09-2009, 09:17 AM
 
9,999 posts, read 8,829,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax View Post
Shalom

Vayiqra ="and he commanded" = Leviticus.

Why do some Christians bring up the ancient Jewish "Holiness Code" completely out of context ONLY when they want to bash gays? All it shows is the ignorance and hypocrisy of the person quoting it. Whenever any Christian uses Leviticus, it shows me they don't know what they are talking about, have not bothered to research the topic, and are just picking verses out of the Bible with no understanding their context.
Could someone clarify this point for me?

Some Christians who adhere to the Bible as their law believe Christ dismissed only the dietary laws of the OT and kept the others.

Others claim Christ manifested the prophecies of the OT and dismissed all of the OT for a new age based on the NT.

Which is it?
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Old 05-09-2009, 09:46 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 6,263,347 times
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Well, here's what I said in another thread. What is said about homosexual offenders is also said in the NT. It's not just an OT law to be thrown out with eating pork or wearing two types of fabrics. Now keep in mind I adhere to the Bible because it's the Word of God. If someone doesn't believe that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God then there will never be any common ground and therefore circular arguments.


Let's look at what he compares to the commandment of a man is not to lay with another man......wearing two different types of fabrics and not to plant two kinds of seeds in the same field.

Hmmmm.....there's one HUGE difference here.....God did not say that mixing fabric content and seeds was an ABOMINATION. However, He did say that about homosexuality. This is twisting of scripture at it's worst, and there will be a high price to pay for false teachings to suit one's own desires.

Funny how people like this guy conveniently say something in scripture was not meant to be taken literal when it does not agree with their sin.


Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.



I see nothing about abominations in the below verses. What I see is just some good advice.

Deuteronomy 22:9
Do not plant two kinds of seed in your vineyard; if you do, not only the crops you plant but also the fruit of the vineyard will be defiled.

Deuteronomy 22:11
Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together.



1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

I don't know how much clearer the above verses could be. The above scripture is from the NEW TESTAMENT so there is absolutely no validity to any argument in favor of homosexuality. It says right here plain as DAY that practicing homosexuality will keep you out of heaven. No need to even argue the OT, because it was all cleared up in the NT. I wish I had a nickel for everytime I've quoted these scriptures. But, in one ear and out the other when you're making up your own doctrine to suit your sin.
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Old 05-09-2009, 10:23 AM
 
9,999 posts, read 8,829,655 times
Reputation: 3545
Then why don't Christians mount massive political campagisn to attack people who drink alcohol?

Why are people who drink a Bud Light allowed to marry?

Regions that are predominantly conservative Christian are overwhelmingly of a lower socio-economic level and in predominantly rural/ex-urban or urban communities. Dependence on alcohol and drugs runs rampant in these communities. Why are these abominators allowed to marry in the name of God?
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Old 05-09-2009, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Little Elm, TX
6,945 posts, read 7,245,605 times
Reputation: 4114
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheLord View Post
Well consider the source. I agree with you 100% Fundie, but you know there seem to be a lot of tiptoers through the tulips, make love not war hippie type flower children mystics on the board that feel that if you don't show love to a black widow spider that you are "unloving" and "unChristian". Actually, the opposite is true.

YOU ARE CORRECT, because that's what the BIBLE SAYS.

Leviticus 19:17
Do not hate your brother in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in his guilt.

2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourageówith great patience and careful instruction.

1 Timothy 1:3
As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer

2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought themóbringing swift destruction on themselves.

2 John 10-11
"If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him."
"Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work."

We share in the guilt and wickedness when we do not "call people out"!!
How plain can this be?
"Consider the source".

DOTL, you don't know me so drop your weapon for one minute and listen :

I'm was speaking of the lost, and what people that are led by the Spirit should be...not talking but touching. Ministering to the lost is loving them while feeding them. Showing them a reason to turn, rather than just another hand of resistance from the "Jesus crowd".

They get more love at the crackhouse.

If we were in fact the embodiment of Christ in the earth, people would see love that breaks chains, not something that binds them even tighter in their fear.

Now, for the false doctrine bash... :

If your faith was so deeply rooted in Him, you would not be moved. Your life and light would outshine any call from those proclaiming any other way. That goes for all of us, and that's all I'll say about that.

Know your God.
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