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Spoken, you`re wasting your time posting with him. He just trying to act like he doesn`t understand God`s restoration. He`s had it explained to him over and over and he still misrepresents it. Noone can be that thick. He`s just trying to argue.
Why do you universalist fool yourselves. You are on dangerous ground. I beg of you to repent and stop having your ears tickled. The world loves universalism. Jesus said, they hate me they will hate you too. What world hates universalism? The world prefers universalism, the world promotes universalism. That alone should be an easy clue that this is a doctrine of hell. You will lead many to damnation.
Can't you see this is a lie, a false doctrine that greatly undermines the gospel. I will pray for you who are lost in this worldly religion. God Bless my friends.
There was a post on this thread that pointed out how the words "forever," "everlasting," (certainly "perpetual" is another) and such like can't be the true meaning. Once you examine that you should never again say something in the Bible called "everlasting," for instance, really is unless you've searched it out in the original language. Some of the things I share from the Word with the same people over and over...ya' gotta wonder if they bother to read much of anything that is posted. Like, why do people persist in thinking, "go to heaven (a better place in death)" whenever they read the words, "enter the kingdom of heaven?" They are absolutely different, non-equivalent concepts. Among other things, the phrase "go to heaven" never even occurs in the Bible and is more often plural. I think when they see a longer post they mostly pass it by.
Well dude you are right about endless torture not being mentioned in the OT but afterlife is taught in Judaism
I agree about the afterlife.
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the Olam ha ba and the attention for Jews is given to the hear and now always has been but the idea of being restored to your people and being cut of from your people is tough as rightous and unrightous [
I`m not sure what you just said. But I think you mean restored or cut off is like being righteous and unrighteous. Ok?
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And like it or not the information you have has been brought along through teaching (talmud). And another thing eventual resurection is taught to Jews for the COMING MESSIANIC AGE christ jesus of naz is said messiah if you hold to the idea that he isn't then for your therory to be right your still waiting for that day which will be the awakening to the Jews called the day of the Lord.
Again, I have no idea what you just said. But, I did see Christ Jesus is the messiah in there. So I agree he is the MESSIAH. I never said he wasn`t, I don`t think! As far as my theory goes..uh..what was my theory again?
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geeze and we are called stiff necked!
Shalom
I don`t think your stiff necked..a little thin skinned and defensive perhaps, but not stiff necked.
OK, I am really trying to understand your perspective but I am really having a difficult time when weighing it against the bible. Do you deny the existance of hell? How about evil? I don't understand how one can biblically deny that hell exists when Jesus speaks of hell, separation, and the possibility of not entering the kingdom of heaven. Mt. 7:21-23 ''Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me you evildoers!''
I believe the scripture teaches that God is a "refining fire" Mal. 3:3, His fire is to purify humanity, some in this life, some in the punishment of the next age.
Romans 5:18 gives a clear picture of my perspective:
"Therefore just as one man's (Adam's) trespass leads to condemnation for all, so one man's (Christ) act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all."
This is a parallel statement the same all in the first is also the same all in the second. Just as Adam's sin condemned all mankind, like wise Jesus sacrifice reconciled all mankind to God.
The verses you present refers to the gospel, Jesus said clearly that the His kingdom does not come with "observation" it is not visible, rather the kingdom is within you.
I`m not sure what you just said. But I think you mean restored or cut off is like being righteous and unrighteous. Ok?
Again, I have no idea what you just said. But, I did see Christ Jesus is the messiah in there. So I agree he is the MESSIAH. I never said he wasn`t, I don`t think! As far as my theory goes..uh..what was my theory again? I don`t think your stiff necked...a little thin skinned and defensive maybe, but not stiff necked.
defensive not really nothing in here is any skin off my back, there is a constant back and forth were some through mud and others geek or hebrew back and forth nothing of any investment is ever dialoged. I didn't say you called me stiff necked I was refering to you by saying oi the bible calls us Jews a stiff necked people. But as we agree that the Lamb of God has come and went maybe we could move on to the second coming!
Ignorance? SP. Will Hindus go to heaven? will muslims go to heaven? will atheists go to heaven? Universalist are the ones fooling themselves claiming, they don't believe and can't see that is what they believe.
The issue of Salvation is change. All these various misled people, and you've also asked about athiests and the like as well, none of them stay Hindus or Moslems, athiests or carnal deceived Christians. They all CHANGE because God works it.
I've answered you at length about the unbiblical misconception that God's purpose in salvation is a better place in death. He is making us into His image and likeness! You mean He's doing that for those who aren't like Him? Absolutely! Jesus bro't victory over death. This is what the Apostle said was the one thing he did, it was the prize for the race he was in, "to attain to a higher dimension in Christ," "that this body of humiliation be transfigured into a body of glory like His." What salvation does to us is change us to be like Jesus so we can come into face to face fellowship with God and one another in the realms of glory.
Jesus says, "Heaven and Earth shall pass, but my word shall never pass."
Some of the things I share from the Word with the same people over and over...ya' gotta wonder if they bother to read much of anything that is posted.
Well, you`re right James. When it is someone who is truly trying to understand your belief and why you believe that way, then I will post with them all day long. I`ll even post with someone who challenges my belief. But some people on here,after having it explained a million times to them, continue misrepresenting what you say and believe. They continue to ask the same questions over and over. THEY TELL YOU what you believe( LOL ) instead of reading what you post. That is why for the people who are truly searching for truth, they can easily see the difference between people who post their beliefs in an educated, disciplined, and sensible way and those who respond with the same distortions about it over and over. Then they wonder why more and more people are coming to believe in God`s restoration.
I read the posts in part to fellowship. As well, I need to learn all I can.
I was over 40 years old before I understood that at the consumation of the highest you could aim to in this life was victory over death like Mechizadak, or Elijah, or specially Jesus. Elisha had a double of the Spirit of Elijah, yet died, though his bones brought back a young man from the dead. So sometimes I wonder of the possibility for a perfect, mature, finished man to die as a sacrificial lamb at the will of God like Jesus being a highest aim too. It is the complete concord with God to which we aim. To become what the Bible calls an Overcomer, to come into the image and likeness of God, spirit, soul and body: that is what I've uncovered as the aim for any man of God. I pray that I continuously experience the presence of God manifesting in power.
BTW, I do not believe all religions lead to God..Only through Jesus Christ are we made right with God..and he already done the work..he died for the sins of the world..remember? He did not go through all of that for a 'few' who have decided with their own free wills to 'accept' him...that is another huge difference.
There are Christian Universalist and Universalists..there is a difference. Yeah, are you reading any of these post?
Amen.
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Spoken, you`re wasting your time posting with him. He just trying to act like he doesn`t understand God`s restoration. He`s had it explained to him over and over and he still misrepresents it. Noone can be that thick. He`s just trying to argue.
I agree, spm62. I am not posting really for him but for anyone who may be coming in and reading and who may want to learn more about God's purpose to reconcile all to Himself. I don't like seeing our words twisted and the beliefs presented incorrectly. Have a blessed day all.
The question of all questions is essentially this: can evil finally triumph over Good?
If evil ultimately triumphs
If we answer affirmatively with the popular creed of unending evil and sin, we are practically falling into dualism; if we reply negatively, we are teaching the Restitution of all things. The Calvinist settled the question by, in fact, affirming that if evil triumphs it is because God so orders, that is, because God decrees to evil an eternal existence; thus saving or trying to save God's omnipotence, but at no less a cost than that of blackening His character, yes, of virtually making Him a partner in evil.
God Satisfied With Endless Disobedience?
But the popular creed of despair and unending curse saves neither the omnipotence of God, nor yet preserves His character. Sin, the one thing most utterly hateful in His sight, He tolerates forever and ever, poisoning and defiling His works, and defying His power--satisfied, if in this brief life He cannot have obedience and righteousness--satisfied with endless disobedience and sin hereafter.
A Baffled Saviour A Victorious Devil?
He appears before all creation as trying to dislodge sin, only to fail; as sending His divine Son to save all men in order that He may return rejected, baffled, vanquished. And so the curtain falls on the great drama of creation and redemption, presenting such a picture as this- a baffled Saviour, a victorious devil, a ruined creation, sin triumphant- and so to continue forever- a heaven wholly base, a hell wholly miserable.
God's Essence
Strong as these words are, they are not strong enough, for the horrors and the contradictions of the popular creed alike defy description. And these horrors are taught, these contradictions are believed in the face of the plainest teaching of God's two revelations, His primary revelation to our moral sense, His written revelation in Holy Scripture. From the first page to the last the Bible is the story on one who is our Father- one whose 'wrath', and 'fire', and 'judgement', are at once most real, and yet one and all are the expressions of that essential LOVE which He is- One who being Almighty is sending His Son to assured victory, to reconcile to Himself all things, 'whatsover and wheresoever they be.'
Vain Attempts
I know how eagerly men strive to save the popular creed, by diminishing the number of the lost, by softening their torments, by asserting their annihilation, etc. What are all these but to many tacit confessions that men everywhere feel it impossible to maintain the creed still generally professed? What are they but in fact so many vain attempts to disguise the awful fact of God's defeat, to hide if it may be the victory of the evil one? For so long as sin lingers in a single heart, so long as a single child of the Great Parent perishes eternally, whether annihilated, or sent to hell, so long is the Cross a failure, and the devil practically victor.
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