There Will be NO Mark of the Beast in the Future (believers, sin)

[Digital_Duck]

Originally Posted by thrillobyte

Most of Revelation (Chap. 5-18 or so) are so fantastical, so sci-fi-like that it is impossible to take it literally. It MUST be interpreted symbolically and/or allegorically. Flying scorpions with women's hair, teeth of a lion, and crowns on their heads!!!! I mean come on! Let's get back into reality!

Really! how dumb can they be?

Didn't they know that Flying scorpions might have been jets flying high with white trails behind which might sort of look like a floating hair?

Lets not over look teeth of a lion - when we all know it was the "Flying Tiger's" with the teeth painted on the nose of the plane.

come on - how STUPID can they be??

we know the interpreter is vigilant observational master of understanding.

[Preterist]

Originally Posted by Thirdparty

No disrespect honestly but NONsense, first of to speak of Eph. 1:21 what age do you think Paul was talking about and why wouldn't the events spoken of by John, Ezk, Dan,Joel,Gen,Paul,Mathew,Luke,Habb,and so one been apart of time before another age to come as. There are events that one would have to explain in order to astablish the current age if I could through in 20"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. when did one start or both start or has one ended the eion thing and age thing can be a real stumbling block bummer.

Shalom

To whom was Jesus speaking in Luke 21:20-24, Thirdparty? Jesus was clearly addressing those very disciples standing right there with Him. THEY were to see Jerusalem surrounded by armies and THEY were to know that its desolation was near. WE are not the YE. The destruction of Herod's Temple and the city of Jerusalem marked the end of that old covenant age of Judaism which was inseparably associated with those things! The new age of the new spiritual realities in Christ (temple, priesthood, etc.) was firmly established with the old forever out of the way. We are still in that new age! Please read Hebrews 8 where we find that the old covenant was even then, in that first century time frame, growing old, becoming obsolete and ready to vanish away!

Preterist

[thrillobyte]

Clearly we've gotten way off topic. My offer still stands: please someone show me one verse in the Bible that supports the notion that there will be a rapture and then a 7-year tribulation and I will prove it false with solid biblical evidence.

[JamesMRohde]

Various things are included in the category "Rapture" depending on who uses it. Most "Rapture" doctrines contain Scriptural components that upon re-examination are found to be misrepresented. The term itself is a man-made label that doesn't exist in the BIBLE. The phrase, "Seven year(s) great tribulation" does not exist in Scripture either. To cease using terminology not in Scripture is obvious if one cares to agree with the mind of God.

Why it seems to make no difference to those who advocate these things, while they continue to claim to believe and teach only the BIBLE, has always been hard for me to understand. One brother said all you have to do is just touch it to find out what spirit it is of. When I was only seeking the truth, I was treated with physical violence, slanders and lies, and the elimination of me from their world to the extent that the law allowed. This was before I knew what to think of it any more than to ask where it was in the Bible. When you can't produce the facts you either abandon your position or use what force you can to silence inquiry or opposition.

What is revealed in Scripture about what is to happen in the close of this age, and in the transition into the next, is fought by Satan because the knowledge of it is a prerequisite for the faith by which God does His works. When you don't know what is to happen, or what your place in it is, you're mostly out of the game.

Confine your expression of faith to the actual words God chose to make His revelation known. Verify important things in the original languages.

I don't see how that rule can be faulted. I have added another thing: Read the Bible in the form God gave it to us, book by book, from the beginning of a book to its end. Though topics can be searched out in the Bible, God didn't give it to us in that form. Assembling chains of verses has been used to misrepresent what is written and to oppose God. These chains have been hung around people's necks and their leaders have learned to like pulling those chains.

[Ilene Wright]

Originally Posted by thrillobyte

Clearly we've gotten way off topic. My offer still stands: please someone show me one verse in the Bible that supports the notion that there will be a rapture and then a 7-year tribulation and I will prove it false with solid biblical evidence.

All the information you need is right here. I realize some people's resistance to biblical truth and not wanting to read any links that are provided but if you want answers then you need to read the link.

There will be a Rapture of the church and there will be a 7 year tribulation. I do not understand your need to disprove something that is impossible to disprove. God has always removed His own before destruction, and the 7 year tribulation is plainly prophecied in the Bible. Are you saying that you are the only person that God has revealed His NEW plan to? I didn't think so. Because God is the same yesterday, today and forever.

[thrillobyte]

Yes, most, if not all, of the arguments in the above link can be refuted easily with this:
the "Rapture" Hoax ! (http://wordofgodorwordsofmen.com/rapturemyth.aspx/ - broken link)
and this:
THE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE HOAX
and this:
The Rapture Hoax
and this:
NO RAPTURE, WITH PROOF

These pages blow so many holes in the RaptureReady argument that it'd sink to the bottom of the sea faster than a stone. But don't take my word for it. Read the pages CAREFULLY and PRAYERFULLY and then make a decision.

[Digital_Duck]

Originally Posted by thrillobyte

Yes, most, if not all, of the arguments in the above link can be refuted easily with this:
the "Rapture" Hoax ! (http://wordofgodorwordsofmen.com/rapturemyth.aspx/ - broken link)
and this:
THE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE HOAX
and this:
The Rapture Hoax
and this:
NO RAPTURE, WITH PROOF

These pages blow so many holes in the RaptureReady argument that it'd sink to the bottom of the sea faster than a stone. But don't take my word for it. Read the pages CAREFULLY and PRAYERFULLY and then make a decision.

I am not going to go into every link ... just the first paragraph of the first one.

The "Rapture” Hoax
St. Paul believed that he and his followers were living in the last days. He wrote to his contemporaries in Thessalonica about what he believed would happen in their lifetime.

When a person dies - the lights go out just like going to sleep.

When a person dreams it is either in the beginning of the sleep or the end (just like the encounters of those who died for a short time)

When the dead resurrect - it will be like a brief moment of sound sleep with no dreams. The resurrection is still part of their own life.

So - it is in their life time spiritually speaking.

[JamesMRohde]

Providing one reference, chapter and verse, just one would do it. Again and again: The words "rapture" and "seven years great tribulation" never occur in the Bible. Never! You'd think that would be a clue!!

[Preterist]

Originally Posted by Ilene Wright

All the information you need is right here. I realize some people's resistance to biblical truth and not wanting to read any links that are provided but if you want answers then you need to read the link.

There will be a Rapture of the church and there will be a 7 year tribulation. I do not understand your need to disprove something that is impossible to disprove. God has always removed His own before destruction, and the 7 year tribulation is plainly prophecied in the Bible. Are you saying that you are the only person that God has revealed His NEW plan to? I didn't think so. Because God is the same yesterday, today and forever.

Greetings Ilene Wright: Could you please tell us where the 7-year tribulation "is plainly prophesied in the Bible?" Thank you.

Preterist

[thrillobyte]

I find that most pre-tribbers are young kids (teens-30's) who know nothing about scripture, just what slick ministers with a gilded tongue and a book to peddle have spoon-fed them (think HL, JVI, GJ). There are a few die-hard middle-agers who refuse to throw in the towel, but by the time Christians get to their 60's they pretty much have been around the block, witnessed innumerable missed dates and have finally wised up after deciding to check the rapture and tribulation out for themselves. For pre-tribbers: the truth is out there, you just have to get off your duff and start researching.