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Old 05-12-2009, 01:55 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 14,538,007 times
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I want to get to the truth on both sides. Both sides actually are not totally accurate about the other side. I myself still don't understand nor can grasp universalism but on the flip side, universalist do not grasp our gospel either even the ones who say they were once Christians who followed the gospel which included hell, still have a warped view of that gospel just like so many Christians in the church today which is why less than 54% of evangelicals believe in hell anymore. I love my universal brothers and sisters. I say that because I have the faith that one day God will bring you back on the right path, you are just lost for the moment as I know you say the same about us ESPECIALLY ME because God only know how much prayer I need . So instead of bickering, "repent" or is "hell the truth/eternal". Let's have a peaceful dialogue where we can learn from each other and put one another's doctrine in the correct perspective so as to avoid strawmans. I am not talking about scripture or greek interpretation <Gulp! a fundamentalist not using scripture, that is unheard of head hurts!>. I am talking more on a personal level, what drove us to believe what we believe? Can we both be right? Is hell justifiable? Did the Holy Spirit lead both sides to believe in both? and it's ok if one corrects the other in their misunderstanding of what they believe of the other's doctrine in a civil, loving, understanding manner. Can we do that? We can be honest here, were big boys and girls, no one is going to get their feelings hurt once we do it in a civil manner, right?

update: ok we can use scripture, let's just not get scripture crazy
- 2-3 verses per response is great

Thread Disclaimer

In no way is this thread promoting inclusiveness or compromise just peaceful dialogue

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 05-12-2009 at 02:35 PM..
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis
4,323 posts, read 6,012,954 times
Reputation: 677
Fundy.
I know you think my beliefs are wrong so I'm going to answer your question.

God led me to my truths because I asked Him to. I told Him I didn't want any bull and I only wanted absolute truth. He led me to what I believe today. It matters not to me what others believe. It only matters what I believe for myself. If I find that my path is, someday, leading me AWAY from God, I will then look elsewhere. Right now, I have no reason to go because I have peace and I'm completely happy in everything. God listens to my prayers and He loves me. That is all that should matter to anyone. What we believe is only up to us and should not be pushed on others.
I know you have a great heart in there somewhere. It peeks out every once in a while.
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Seattle/Kent,WA
224 posts, read 404,875 times
Reputation: 79
I feel the same about you, that you are on the wrong path and do not understand the Gospel. I do not know what else to say about the subject right now...I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was the Holy Spirit..We believe in hell and LOF, just not the everlasting part of it...But, This is how I came to believe what I believe, I will post this again:

"It was just two years ago, a little over two years that God opened my eyes. I had been seeking God those past couple of years through serious fasting and intercession, etc for long periods of times just to know him more and deeper. I wanted more and more of God. I sacrificed a lot just to be able to have alone time with God..No TV for long periods, No talking on the phone..I would go to work and grocery store and only where I had to go....My point is, I truly just wanted to seek him with my whole heart.

At the time, I had just watched a show on Carlton Pearson and how he no longer believed in ET..and I remember at first saying, "he has lost his mind", but by the end of the show I remember saying, "Hmm,God is he right, is he right". God was so silent for two years...But, I also remember before seeing this on television talking to God many days and telling him that I am not comfortable telling people about his love for them and the Gospel..but then saying, "If you don't accept this, you are going to burn forever". I began to feel like this was out of place, but I could not put my finger on it..SO, there was no reason to not believe in ET, that is what I had been told ALL my life to believe..that is what was passed down to me. Still, I am getting more and more uncomfortable with this, but not sure what is going on.

God answered me two years later after what seemed to be a long silence and dry period in many ways in my life..and during the worst time in my life till date.

Once he shows you, that is it..I have not been the same since, and my relationship with God has gotten even deeper...So many things make sense now. He began to show me that the nature of a Father is not to punish forever, only for a period..etc, etc, etc, etc.."
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Pilot Point, TX
7,874 posts, read 14,144,967 times
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I must disagree - I do "grasp both sides" as you put it, because I definitely know why I believed what I believed. My path is probably similar to others: the Lord led me down a path of progression through what He was doing in my life and those around me. He dealt sovereignly with me; He brought my life up from the pit; He showed such faithfulness that I could not turn away from, doggedly defending the life He had instilled in me yet crushing me at the same time.

He can raise the dead.
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:13 PM
 
Location: NC
14,743 posts, read 17,072,229 times
Reputation: 1511
Quote:
I want to get to the truth on both sides. Both sides actually are not totally accurate about the other side. I myself still don't understand nor can grasp universalism but on the flip side, universalist do not grasp our gospel either even the ones who say they were once Christians who followed the gospel which included hell, still have a warped view of that gospel just like so many Christians in the church today which is why less than 54% of evangelicals believe in hell anymore. I love my universal brothers and sisters. I say that because I have the faith that one day God will bring you back on the right path, you are just lost for the moment as I know you say the same about us ESPECIALLY ME because God only know how much prayer I need . So instead of bickering, "repent" or is "hell the truth/eternal". Let's have a peaceful dialogue where we can learn from each other and put one another's doctrine in the correct perspective so as to avoid strawmans. I am not talking about scripture or greek interpretation <Gulp! a fundamentalist not using scripture, that is unbelievable head hurts!>. I am talking more on a personal level, what drove us to believe what we believe? Can we both be right? Is hell justifiable? Did the Holy Spirit lead both sides to believe in both? and it's ok if one corrects the other in their misunderstanding of what they believe of the other's doctrine in a civil, loving, understanding manner. Can we do that?

Thread Disclaimer
In no way is this thread promoting inclusiveness or compromise just peaceful dialogue
Hi Fundy, I don't know if I can't use scripture also This is what my faith is based on and the love of God as presented in the scriptures drove me to this understanding. But I will try. I believe that God's Holy Spirit working through His word and on my heart led me to this belief and understanding. I don't see how hell can be justifiable if God is omniscent, has all power, is agape love, and has revealed His purpose for mankind. Now, I believe that God allowed me to have the belief in everlasting hell for a reason. I was a person who was very dogmatic in my approach when reaching out to those who I believed to be lost. I understand this side. But I believed that only those in my select group were "going to heaven" but I did a 180 degree turn when I learned of God's ultimate plan for mankind. I believe that God allowed me or even intended for me to be in one place to lead me to another place for His purposes.

Quote:
He can raise the dead.

Amen. God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 05-12-2009 at 02:30 PM..
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Seattle/Kent,WA
224 posts, read 404,875 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
I must disagree - I do "grasp both sides" as you put it, because I definitely know why I believed what I believed. My path is probably similar to others: the Lord led me down a path of progression through what He was doing in my life and those around me. He dealt sovereignly with me; He brought my life up from the pit; He showed such faithfulness that I could not turn away from, doggedly defending the life He had instilled in me yet crushing me at the same time.

He can raise the dead.
I can so relate to that..Exactly..
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:22 PM
 
2,984 posts, read 3,335,932 times
Reputation: 465
We grasp your gospel only to well, Fundy. I have walked in your shoes for more years than you can imagine. For me, Birdbrain that I am, the process has been a wonderful excursion into the outer laminar spheres of the unspeakable unknown.

It comes down to this.....

"No man can receive anything unless it be given him from above."
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:25 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 14,538,007 times
Reputation: 753
I love it guys this is wonderful. I believe we can learn about each other, understand and allow the Holy Spirit to move in this room (Wow I sound like a pentecostal-I guess old habits are hard to break) I have to leave but I will be back, feel free if anyone has any questions for me. Thanks guys and God bless
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:27 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 14,538,007 times
Reputation: 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
Hi Fundy, I don't know if I can't use scripture also This is what my faith is based on and the love of God as presented in the scriptures drove me to this understanding. But I will try. I believe that God's Holy Spirit working through His word and on my heart led me to this belief and understanding. I don't see how hell can be justifiable if God is omniscent, has all power, is agape love, and has revealed His purpose for mankind. Now, I believe that God allowed me to have the belief in everlasting hell for a reason. I was a person who was very dogmatic in my approach when reaching out to those who I believed to be lost. I understand this side. But I believed that only those in my select group were "going to heaven" but I did a 180 degree turn when I learned of God's ultimate plan for mankind. I believe that allowed me or even intended for me to be in one place to lead me to another place for His purposes.




Amen. God bless.
Yes you can use scripture, I just didn't us to get scripture crazy
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:29 PM
 
Location: MI
1,289 posts, read 2,163,525 times
Reputation: 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
I must disagree - I do "grasp both sides" as you put it, because I definitely know why I believed what I believed. My path is probably similar to others: the Lord led me down a path of progression through what He was doing in my life and those around me. He dealt sovereignly with me; He brought my life up from the pit; He showed such faithfulness that I could not turn away from, doggedly defending the life He had instilled in me yet crushing me at the same time.

He can raise the dead.
Excellent post.

Again.

Fundamentalist...nice thread.
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