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Old 05-13-2009, 09:40 PM
 
2,939 posts, read 3,061,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JessE86 View Post
how does that show or illustrate why Jesus cried ? I think we are way off topic here.
you are the one that brought up a parable. you are basing your reason for jesus crying due to the fact thatyou believe lazarus was in paradise or heaven
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Old 05-13-2009, 09:42 PM
 
Location: NC
10,943 posts, read 8,523,663 times
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Quote:
The oldest trick of satan, he come to kill, steal, and destroy the truth
Amen to this. God bless.
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Barrow,AK
319 posts, read 778,868 times
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When Moses died,

when King David died what happened ??

My bible says very plainly To be absent from the body .. .. ..

what happend in this so called parable ?? this true story.. two people died and went to different real places.

So where is Abrahams bosom ?? what is Abrahams Bosom
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:11 PM
 
Location: Barrow,AK
319 posts, read 778,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
you are the one that brought up a parable. you are basing your reason for jesus crying due to the fact thatyou believe lazarus was in paradise or heaven
Jesus wept - He knew he was going to raise Lazarus from the dead - so the people get all happied up as Laz, comes walking out of the grave. and Jesus is crying but that is not.. an actual representation of his agony, Jesus wept ! WHY ????

CAN'T YOU SEE THE OBVIOUS !!

Look up that word wept in Strongs Exhaustive Concordance and see what the original greek word that was used there actually meant. then if you take the time to add it all up BASED ON GODS WORD !! it all fits perfectly.. nothing else makes any sense -and scripture backs this / these claims up !!

Abrahams bosom - what is it ??
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:56 PM
 
2,939 posts, read 3,061,445 times
Reputation: 1529
Quote:
Originally Posted by JessE86 View Post
When Moses died,
"And the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, you shall sleep [Heb: shakab—to lie down, to rest, to sleep, to decease] with your fathers…" (Deut. 31:16).

Quote:
when King David died what happened ??
1 Kings 2:10
Then David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David.

Quote:
My bible says very plainly To be absent from the body
So does mine. I already explained that to you. Your bible also says the dead know NOTHING. It doesn`t get any plainer than that. Your bible also calls death sleep. Why do you choose to ignore the bible when it says the dead know nothing? Why would you want to bring any of your loved ones back if they were in paradise? Wouldn`t that be extremely selfish on your part? Wouldn`t the one being raised be upset that you brought them back? If you truly long to be with Christ with all of your heart and soul, why would you even consider bringing someone back if they were in paradise?

Quote:
what happend in this so called parable ?? this true story.. two people died and went to different real places
So where is Abrahams bosom ?? what is Abrahams Bosom
Is the prodigal son a true story? What about all the other parables that were told at the same time as the rich man and beggar? Jesus spoke in parables when he spoke to the masses. The parable begins like a lot of the others, there once was a rich man. They are all told together. They all relate to each other. I just want to make sure I understand what you are saying here. You believe because he mentions a proper name like Lazarus, that means it can`t be a parable? Why didn`t he mention the name of the rich man? Why didn`t he tell us why the rich man was in torment? Why didn`t he tell us why the beggar was in paradise? Why was it important what the rich man was wearing? What was important about the 5 brothers? Why was it important that the man was rich? Why was it important that the other was poor?All these things have meaning, just like in the other parables.
Can a drop of water cool your tongue? If there is a great gulf between them, how can he talk to abraham? He starts out the parables with there was a certain rich man just like the other parable , one right after the other, but you choose to pick this one out and say it wasn`t a parable? Why does a person go to torment when they die without being judged? They get resurrected out of torment, judged and then put back into torment again? Why would people get resurrected from where the Lord is if they are so happy and content, just to go back again after resurrection? What is the point of being resurrected? It is obvious to any student of the bible that this is a parable. I don`t understand how any serious student would even consider this to be anything other than a parable. It`s almost a no brainer, really.

"All these things Jesus speaks in parables to the throngs, and apart from a parable He spoke nothing to them..." (Mat. 13:34).


Last edited by spm62; 05-14-2009 at 12:47 AM..
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:42 AM
 
2,939 posts, read 3,061,445 times
Reputation: 1529
Quote:
Originally Posted by JessE86 View Post
Jesus wept - He knew he was going to raise Lazarus from the dead - so the people get all happied up as Laz, comes walking out of the grave. and Jesus is crying but that is not.. an actual representation of his agony, Jesus wept ! WHY ????
There is no doubt that Jesus loved Lazarus, Mary, and Martha but He wasn't weeping because Lazarus was dead, but because of the people's unbelief.

Jesus knew before He went to Bethany ( the city that Lazarus lived in ) that Lazarus was going to be dead, Jesus even waited two days after He heard the news about Lazarus before He started on the way to Bethany. But Jesus also knew that Lazarus was going to be raised from the dead. When you know that someone is going to be raised from the dead, why would you weep about it?

Jesus told His disciples plainly before He left to go to Lazarus that Lazarus was dead.

11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

Notice that Jesus said that Lazarus was sleeping, but that He went to wake Lazarus from his sleep. Jesus was talking about raising Lazarus from the dead. When The disciples of Jesus didn't understand what Jesus meant, He told them plainly that Lazarus was dead.

12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him.

I would like for us to look at some other verses

32 Then when Mary was come where Jesus was, and saw him, she fell down at his feet, saying unto him, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
33 When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled,
34 And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see.
35 Jesus wept.

Look at what Mary told Jesus, if He would have been there Lazarus would not have died, and after Jesus seen her crying and the others ( who were crying like they had no hope, remember Mary's words, if Jesus would have only been there ) it was then that Jesus groaned in the spirit and was troubled, and then after asking where they had laid Lazarus, Jesus wept.

36 Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him!

The people around thought the reason Jesus was weeping was because of His love for Lazarus, but they were blind to the things they were saying and their own unbelief. Why would Jesus weep, when He knew that Lazarus was going to be live again?

37 And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died?
38 Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it.

Notice that the same type of words, " could not this man "
makes Jesus groan in Himself again. It was because of their unbelief, Jesus knew why He was there, and knew exactly what was going to happen.

I hope you read the whole chapter prayerfully and ask the Lord to show you. There are other examples of how Jesus was moved with different emotions because of peoples unbelief and the hardness of their heart.

Jesus marvelled at people's unbelief
Mark 6:6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

Jesus upbraided His disciples with their unbelief and the hardness of their heart.
Mr 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

Jesus was angry and grieved because of the hardness of people's hearts ( I know that some people will be uncomfortable with this, but there is a Godly anger, and Jesus was perfect and without sin )
Mark 3: 4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.
5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other. Jesus also wept over the city of Jerusalem because of their unbelief.
Quote:
CAN'T YOU SEE THE OBVIOUS !!
Sometimes.




Quote:
Look up that word wept in Strongs Exhaustive Concordance and see what the original greek word that was used there actually meant. then if you take the time to add it all up BASED ON GODS WORD !! it all fits perfectly.. nothing else makes any sense -and scripture backs this / these claims up !!
Jesus was "deeply moved in spirit," or as the KJV reads, "he groaned in the spirit." These phrases translate the Greek "embrimaomai" defined as "to have indignation on, to blame, to sigh with chagrin." The root of the word (brimaomai) literally means "to snort with anger." Jesus was indignant, chagrined with his own friends and disciples. Even these, who had followed him most closely and believed most heartily, were not completely convinced that he was life. Like the religious leaders in Jerusalem, they had not recognized the time of their visitation; they didn't understand the enormity of his relief. So Jesus wept.

Quote:
Abrahams bosom - what is it ??
It was considered a place of honor for the Jews. Abraham was the father of the Jewish people. They knew the honor and rewards God had promised him.To be in Abrahams bosom meant to have the blessings of God. So,it means he was carried into a close, personal relationship WITH ABRAHAM! So the Jews had for centuries great honors and benefits bestowed upon them as the chosen of God for Abraham's sake, but now this place of honor and blessing would be given to those people represented by Lazarus.
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:45 AM
 
Location: Barrow,AK
319 posts, read 778,868 times
Reputation: 245
Can a drop of water cool your tongue?

Now I see. exactly where you are coming from !! That is all I had to see, those words.. you sound just like a Jehovah's witness.

you are using human reasoning !! your trashing the scriptures and I am not impresed one bit.. I have one question to ask and I want a clear and consice anWER PLEASE

Did Jesus raise Lazarus from the dead?
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Old 05-14-2009, 01:10 AM
 
2,939 posts, read 3,061,445 times
Reputation: 1529
Quote:
Originally Posted by JessE86 View Post
Notice in all the parables you listed he never uses names

A certain man - there was a woman..that is what defines a parable.. Look up the meaning in a dictionary..

Parables do not use real peoples names.. show me one !!
What is the meaning of the name Lazarus? Hint: another clue to the meaning of the parable .... Hence, the reason for using that name. Let`s look at a few things. We know from MULTIPLE VERSES that read very plainly, the dead know NOTHING. Stated plainly. We also know that death is called LIKE sleep..stated plainly. We know what happens during sleep, don`t we? So, we just can`t ignore all those verses because they say it plainly and cannot be twisted. Now,we also now that the parable of the the rich man is mentioned in a line of parables, don`t we? We also know it starts out just like the previous parables (there was a certain rich man), don`t we? We also know from scripture (that I already showed in a previous post )that Jesus only talked to the masses in parables, don`t we? We also know the rich man hasn`t been judged yet because judgement day hasn`t come for the unbelievers yet,don`t we? So how, pray tell ,could he be in torment without being judged? If he was in torment, wouldn`t he be screaming in agony? Think if you were burning in literal flames. Instead he is having a conversation with Abraham. By the way, what about that great gulf that seperated them? How can he be having a conversation across a great gulf in the middle of burning flames? Also, according to this parable,you can look over and see other people. So, how would you like to be in paradise and look over and see your friends or your mother or children or wife screaminmg out in agony? That really sounds like paradise to me. There have been people there for thousands of years listening to their loved ones being tortured in torment, being burned alive. You really think that is paradise? So,see how ludicrous it is. Plus all those things mentioned,line by line in the parable...color of his linen, 5 brothers, abrahams bosom, the name Lazarus, being rich, being poor. They all have a meaning in the parable. None of it has meaning if it were to be taken literal. See how clear it all becomes when you search for the truth and use ALL of scripture instead of ignoring plain text and interject your own meaning into 1 or 2 verses?
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Old 05-14-2009, 01:25 AM
 
2,939 posts, read 3,061,445 times
Reputation: 1529
Quote:
Originally Posted by JessE86 View Post
Can a drop of water cool your tongue?

Now I see. exactly where you are coming from !! That is all I had to see, those words.. you sound just like a Jehovah's witness.
what are you talking about..

Quote:
you are using human reasoning !! your trashing the scriptures and I am not impresed one bit.. I have one question to ask and I want a clear and consice anWER PLEASE
I`m trashing the scriptures? I`m using God`s word. What are you using?You should take a long look at yourself, my friend. You are ignoring scripture and placing your own interpretation into God`s word. You can try until judgement day to interject your own special meaning into scripture and try to get it to mean what you want it to mean,but God`s word will stand, no matter how smart or wise you think you are with your own interpretation. You ignore scripture after scripture that say the dead know nothing. Why? Because you don`t want to believe it. You want to believe what you want to believe and if it means twisting scripture and ignoring other scripture then you will do it.
Quote:
Did Jesus raise Lazarus from the dead?
Yes he did
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Old 05-14-2009, 03:43 AM
 
Location: NC
10,943 posts, read 8,523,663 times
Reputation: 1229
Quote:
re is no doubt that Jesus loved Lazarus, Mary, and Martha but He wasn't weeping because Lazarus was dead, but because of the people's unbelief.

Jesus knew before He went to Bethany ( the city that Lazarus lived in ) that Lazarus was going to be dead, Jesus even waited two days after He heard the news about Lazarus before He started on the way to Bethany. But Jesus also knew that Lazarus was going to be raised from the dead. When you know that someone is going to be raised from the dead, why would you weep about it?

Jesus told His disciples plainly before He left to go to Lazarus that Lazarus was dead.

11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

Notice that Jesus said that Lazarus was sleeping, but that He went to wake Lazarus from his sleep. Jesus was talking about raising Lazarus from the dead. When The disciples of Jesus didn't understand what Jesus meant, He told them plainly that Lazarus was dead.

12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him.

I would like for us to look at some other verses

32 Then when Mary was come where Jesus was, and saw him, she fell down at his feet, saying unto him, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
33 When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled,
34 And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see.
35 Jesus wept.

Look at what Mary told Jesus, if He would have been there Lazarus would not have died, and after Jesus seen her crying and the others ( who were crying like they had no hope, remember Mary's words, if Jesus would have only been there ) it was then that Jesus groaned in the spirit and was troubled, and then after asking where they had laid Lazarus, Jesus wept.

36 Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him!

The people around thought the reason Jesus was weeping was because of His love for Lazarus, but they were blind to the things they were saying and their own unbelief. Why would Jesus weep, when He knew that Lazarus was going to be live again?

37 And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died?
38 Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it.

Notice that the same type of words, " could not this man "
makes Jesus groan in Himself again. It was because of their unbelief, Jesus knew why He was there, and knew exactly what was going to happen.

I hope you read the whole chapter prayerfully and ask the Lord to show you. There are other examples of how Jesus was moved with different emotions because of peoples unbelief and the hardness of their heart.

Jesus marvelled at people's unbelief
Mark 6:6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

Jesus upbraided His disciples with their unbelief and the hardness of their heart.
Mr 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

Jesus was angry and grieved because of the hardness of people's hearts ( I know that some people will be uncomfortable with this, but there is a Godly anger, and Jesus was perfect and without sin )
Mark 3: 4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.
5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other. Jesus also wept over the city of Jerusalem because of their unbelief.

Quote:
CAN'T YOU SEE THE OBVIOUS !!
Sometimes.





Quote:
Look up that word wept in Strongs Exhaustive Concordance and see what the original greek word that was used there actually meant. then if you take the time to add it all up BASED ON GODS WORD !! it all fits perfectly.. nothing else makes any sense -and scripture backs this / these claims up !!
Jesus was "deeply moved in spirit," or as the KJV reads, "he groaned in the spirit." These phrases translate the Greek "embrimaomai" defined as "to have indignation on, to blame, to sigh with chagrin." The root of the word (brimaomai) literally means "to snort with anger." Jesus was indignant, chagrined with his own friends and disciples. Even these, who had followed him most closely and believed most heartily, were not completely convinced that he was life. Like the religious leaders in Jerusalem, they had not recognized the time of their visitation; they didn't understand the enormity of his relief. So Jesus wept.


Quote:
Abrahams bosom - what is it ??
It was considered a place of honor for the Jews. Abraham was the father of the Jewish people. They knew the honor and rewards God had promised him.To be in Abrahams bosom meant to have the blessings of God. So,it means he was carried into a close, personal relationship WITH ABRAHAM! So the Jews had for centuries great honors and benefits bestowed upon them as the chosen of God for Abraham's sake, but now this place of honor and blessing would be given to those people represented by Lazarus.
Very good points, spm62. God bless.
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