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Old 05-18-2009, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
428 posts, read 474,829 times
Reputation: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
You must have a low standard for the definition of good. No thanks, I'll listen to God.
Are you serious? What could you possible mean by that? Up until the current economic problem, which affects the entire world, and even still, Canadians and many if not most Europeans have a higher quality of life than most Americans. Just a fact. And yet they are way more secular than we.

I guess I just wonder why God wants to pick on the U.S. and leave other countries in relative peace...

So what I'm saying is the whole concept of God abandoning us just doesn't make sense if you have knowledge whatsoever of other nations other than our own.
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Old 05-18-2009, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
428 posts, read 474,829 times
Reputation: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
The Bible speaks about the United States in no less then three chapters.
The Bible states that all of our cities will be destroyed by our enemies. And Americas destruction will happen in (one hours) time. It states our cities will burn, and after the attack no one will ever be able to live in our land again, because the land will be fully polluted. Also, the Bible states the surrounding nations will also be destroyed. The Bible states that the people of our land are hard pressed against the Holy God of Israel. Scripture indicates that the end of time will be very near when this event occurs. And this event could only occur after the Jewish people have already returned back to their land of Israel, and are in control of Jerusalem.
That's funny, I've read the Bible front to back my whole life and have never seen the words "The United States of America" in there...what translation are you using?
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Old 05-18-2009, 09:17 PM
 
624 posts, read 626,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roneb View Post
What gives is that their governments, while more secular, were also more moral. The congressmen and presidents in the US for the past few decades have been corrupted by their own sense of power and entitlement. Ironically, it reached its peak (or should I say depths) with the previous administration; who set records for corruption and immorality - all while being loved by the religious right. I believe we have turned a corner and the nation will be improving in the years to come.

So no, I don't believe God has abandoned the US.
I would not put my faith and hope in man, especially a government. If we read the Old Testament, we discover how man turned from God as a society. God wants individuals to witness to other individuals, individuals saved one-at-time by accepting Christ as their Savior.

Is our government witnessing for Jesus ? Or is our government promoting worldly and secular philosophies. Jesus said that the world hated Him and it will hate the believer also. I don't think we can be fence sitters. I vote for Jesus. All governments throughout history have turned or will to the ways of the "prince of this world"-Satan. Read Revelation..read Daniel...
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Old 05-18-2009, 09:28 PM
 
624 posts, read 626,812 times
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Default Spiritual warfare ; not party warfare

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly View Post
Then what of a nation whose leaders lied to justify a pointless war that has killed hundreds of thousands of individuals?

Did you vote for those conservative leaders? Are your hands clean of the blood?

We lost our ways in Christ the past 8 years with all the lying, murdering, and deceit, but with the recent election we have been able to begin turning back toward the core values of our nation.
Your putting your faith in man. This is not "US" against "THEM" or republican vs. democrat, we have a spiritual war going on. The devil and the secular world are lying to us. Deception and lies come from people who are seeing things through secular glasses.
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Old 05-18-2009, 10:58 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 6,105,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daddythreepointoh View Post
That's funny, I've read the Bible front to back my whole life and have never seen the words "The United States of America" in there...what translation are you using?
Do you really think that by reading the Bible numerous times you would understand it? It does not work that way. And that is why the Bible tells us, that the natural man will not understand the things of the Spirit, because they are Spiritually discerned. And it matters little what translation you use, the United States is spoken of in the Scriptures. You will not find the name Jesus Christ in the Old Testament either. Yet because of the Old Testament, over a billion people call Jesus Christ God.

WHY IS THAT?
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Old 05-19-2009, 08:48 AM
 
9,981 posts, read 8,302,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbill View Post
I would not put my faith and hope in man, especially a government. If we read the Old Testament, we discover how man turned from God as a society. God wants individuals to witness to other individuals, individuals saved one-at-time by accepting Christ as their Savior.

Is our government witnessing for Jesus ? Or is our government promoting worldly and secular philosophies. Jesus said that the world hated Him and it will hate the believer also. I don't think we can be fence sitters. I vote for Jesus. All governments throughout history have turned or will to the ways of the "prince of this world"-Satan. Read Revelation..read Daniel...
Let us all pray to God in honor of those who risked and gave their lives to create a nation free of religious control that our government is NOT witnessing to Jesus. Our founding fathers created a secular nation in which people were free to follow any religion or lack thereof of their choosing. One need only look at the corrupt dominance of Christianity in European governance before our founders fled that oppression and Europeans shunned religion in favor of Agnosticism.


I know enough about Biblical history and how texts have been added, taken out, voted upon by greedy men, and altered to know we cannot trust the Bible as a source of Christ's teachings. Church fathers as early as the first century were complaining about how much scribes and translators were rewriting the original inspired texts.

So then where does that leave us? In a nation in which each individual has the freedom to tap into that God-source within themselves in whichever spiritual tradition suits said individual, for Christ never demanded worship. He simply demonstrated what we are capable of becoming.

In that sense, God cannot abandon the United States nor can the United States abandon God. God simply is, and each individual pursuing his or her path - no matter how far it may seem from "righteous" and "moral" - is manifesting the freedom ensured by our Constitution to pursue his or her personal path in God in whatever way that individual sees fit.

That is the brilliance of the U.S. governance and why the essence of God permeates even as we as a global society fall into useless wars, material consumption, obesity, destruction of natural resources, and all the other tenets that destroyed the Roman empire.
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Old 05-19-2009, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
839 posts, read 1,419,130 times
Reputation: 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbill View Post
I would not put my faith and hope in man, especially a government. If we read the Old Testament, we discover how man turned from God as a society. God wants individuals to witness to other individuals, individuals saved one-at-time by accepting Christ as their Savior.

Is our government witnessing for Jesus ? Or is our government promoting worldly and secular philosophies. Jesus said that the world hated Him and it will hate the believer also. I don't think we can be fence sitters. I vote for Jesus. All governments throughout history have turned or will to the ways of the "prince of this world"-Satan. Read Revelation..read Daniel...
I agree! It is up to individuals to share the Gospel. Which is why I shared my view that the religious rights desire to put Bush in office and the false morality that followed were a turning away from God. We are now turning back to Christian values.
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:03 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 6,105,939 times
Reputation: 477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly View Post
Let us all pray to God in honor of those who risked and gave their lives to create a nation free of religious control that our government is NOT witnessing to Jesus. Our founding fathers created a secular nation in which people were free to follow any religion or lack thereof of their choosing. One need only look at the corrupt dominance of Christianity in European governance before our founders fled that oppression and Europeans shunned religion in favor of Agnosticism.


I know enough about Biblical history and how texts have been added, taken out, voted upon by greedy men, and altered to know we cannot trust the Bible as a source of Christ's teachings. Church fathers as early as the first century were complaining about how much scribes and translators were rewriting the original inspired texts.

So then where does that leave us? In a nation in which each individual has the freedom to tap into that God-source within themselves in whichever spiritual tradition suits said individual, for Christ never demanded worship. He simply demonstrated what we are capable of becoming.

In that sense, God cannot abandon the United States nor can the United States abandon God. God simply is, and each individual pursuing his or her path - no matter how far it may seem from "righteous" and "moral" - is manifesting the freedom ensured by our Constitution to pursue his or her personal path in God in whatever way that individual sees fit.

That is the brilliance of the U.S. governance and why the essence of God permeates even as we as a global society fall into useless wars, material consumption, obesity, destruction of natural resources, and all the other tenets that destroyed the Roman empire.
You may know a lot about history, yet I don't believe you know very much about the Bible. And if the Bible cannot be trusted as a source of information, can you explain to me why it's endtime prophecies are true?
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:08 AM
 
4,669 posts, read 1,317,136 times
Reputation: 409
The theory is that God is not GOING TO judge us....but that God IS judging us right now. We've let our moralities go so far downhill, that God has said "Fine...have it your way", and is giving us over to our sinful desires.

Our country is no better that that which is spoken of in Romans 1.
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:10 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 6,105,939 times
Reputation: 477
Quote:
Originally Posted by roneb View Post
I agree! It is up to individuals to share the Gospel. Which is why I shared my view that the religious rights desire to put Bush in office and the false morality that followed were a turning away from God. We are now turning back to Christian values.
Can you explain to me how we are turning back to Christian values, when as a nation we have elected a president who supports all forms of Abortion? President Bush was the only president in history to sign a bill that would end all late term abortions. Presisdent Obama will keep the abortion mills open, and he will support judges who will support the killing of unborn children. Obama even voted three times for a law that would withhold medical treatment for a child who survives an abortion. What kind of Christian values are you talking about?
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