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What scripture supports salvation in this lifetime only, and also what scripture supports salvation after punishment?
Is there any ?
Just re read it there are tons that support salvation after punishment .
No wonder Paul starts the letter with praise God
3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he[c] predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And he[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
The parable of the Rich man and Lazarus from Jesus Himself. Witnessing of the Scriptures is sufficient for salvation for those who believe it, and no other revelation will bring about salvation to those who do not.
(Luke 16:31) 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead." God Himself says, if they don't believe in life then they will be judged and notice the Rich man never once repented just regretted where he was; that is not repentance.He accepted his fate
(Hebrews 9:27) 27 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,
(Romans 10:9–10) 9 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
(Acts 16:31) 31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
(John 3:16) 16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
(Romans 3:20) 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
(Revelation 21:27) 27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
(John 6:37) 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away
(Revelation 20:14–15) 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
(John 10:28) 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
(Revelation 20:11–15) 11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. ...
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 06-23-2009 at 04:53 PM..
Just re read it there are tons that support salvation after punishment .
No wonder Paul starts the letter with praise God
3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he[c] predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And he[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
That's the elect; God's chosen, predestination not the whole world but the world that believes in their lifetime before death.
3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he[c] predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9Andhe[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
The parable of the Rich man and Lazarus from Jesus Himself. Witnessing of the Scriptures is sufficient for salvation for those who believe it, and no other revelation will bring about salvation to those who do not.
Mathew 11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
Perhaps you've applied the symbols in the parable too broadly. I think it was an indictment along the lines of "He came unto His own and His own received Him not..."
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: sea of color painting <seaofcolorpainting@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:08 PM
Subject: me
To: paul campion <paulcamps@gmail.com>
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist
The parable of the Rich man and Lazarus from Jesus Himself. Witnessing of the Scriptures is sufficient for salvation for those who believe it, and no other revelation will bring about salvation to those who do not.
There as been loads of posts on here refuting that this is an heaven and hell situation. Do you actually believe God is so sadistic for that He would have a birds eye view of hell for believers in heaven. I was led to believe they would be going up in flames
(Luke 16:31) 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead." God Himself says, if they don't believe in life then they will be judged and notice the Rich man never once repented just regretted where he was; that is not repentance.He accepted his fate
See above answer
(Hebrews 9:27) 27 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,
Who said judgement was the end for anyone ?
(Romans 10:9–10) 9 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess
(Acts 16:31) 31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
They will believe in time see previous response
(John 3:16) 16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. I now you will put this down to being the elect but if you read it in context condemnation was for all men not just the elect so likewise one act of righteousness brings life to all men .
(Romans 3:20) 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
Who said otherwise ?
(Revelation 21:27) 27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
What does this have to with salvation in this life only ?
(John 6:37) 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away
Yes ALL will come
(Revelation 20:14–15) 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Why do christians think the lake of fire is the end ?
(John 10:28) 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
Romans 5 verse 18 again
(Revelation 20:11–15) 11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. Yes ? ...
(Luke 16:31) 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead." God Himself says, if they don't believe in life then they will be judged and notice the Rich man never once repented just regretted where he was; that is not repentance.He accepted his fate
This was directed at the Jews - they have the witness of Moses and the prophets and they do not believe even though one is raised from the dead.
(Hebrews 9:27) 27 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,
Destined to die once - then face judgement -
Where does resurrection come into this? To me it seems that the resurrection is after the judgement.
There is scripture that says that believers carnal nature is to be put to death during our lifetime and if we die with Christ we have already been judged so the resurrection comes after death and after judgement.
There is an order sin - death - judgement - resurrection
(Romans 10:9–10) 9 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
(Acts 16:31) 31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
(John 3:16) 16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
(Romans 3:20) 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
(Revelation 21:27) 27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
Look what comes directly after that verse
Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
(John 6:37) 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away
Where does that say before physical death? You assume it means that.
(Revelation 20:14–15) 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
There is an order to Gods plan sin - death - judgement - resurrection
To get eternal torment the order needs to be rearranged to:-
Believers sin - death -judgement - resurrection
and non believers sin - death - resurrection - judgement
Here we are told that the dead are judged and that would be because of sin but after judgement comes life (resurrection)
1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
(John 10:28) 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
(Revelation 20:11–15) 11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life.
This is the dead being judged - there is no mention here of them being resurrected for this judgement - (people seem to assume that they are resurrected to be judged at this stage)
After those enter judgement we see the bride (holy city - new Jerusalem) coming down, who already being resurrected would not need any tears wiped. However those being judged would need their tears to be wiped away
Also those that have been resurrected would not need the water of life.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
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