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There are only 7 passages in the NT where we read of someone being baptized in the Holy Spirit. It should be noted that the English translations that I will quote use the word WITH rather than IN.
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water to repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with fire
Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit.
Luke 3:16 John answered, saying to them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said to me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Spirit.
It is hard to draw any conclusion from just reading these four Scriptures in regard to what baptism with the Holy Spirit really is. What we read here is that Jesus is the one who will carry out this baptisim and he will baptize his followers.
Now the next two Scriptures strictly refer to what will happen on the day of Pentecost:
Jesus says in Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days hence.
Acts 11:16 [This is Peter referring back to the same words of Jesus that were quoted in Acts 1:5] Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.
These two passages reveal to us that whatever we may think or understand the baptism in the Holy spirit to be, it definetly occurred on Pentecost as Acts 2:14 records it. This was when the Holy Spirit fell in great power on the disciples and those with them, and they spoke in other (known) tongues or languages, and about 3,000 people were converted.
One commentator said that it is important to realize that all six verses use almost exactly the same Greek expression, with the only differences being some variation in word order or verb tense to fit the sentence, and with one example having the preposition understood rather than expressed explicitly.
Here's is the 7th verse on this topic:
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Here's a question to think about. Does 1Corinthians 12:13 refer to the same activity as the other six verses ? It appears that in the other six verses Jesus is the one doing the baptism and the Holy Spirit is the element parallel to water in physical baptism in which or with which Jesus baptizes people.
But in 1 Corinthians 12:13 it appears that we have something quite different--Jesus is not doing the baptism; it's the Holy Spirit doing it.
So it seems that baptism in the Holy Spirit occurrs at conversion. For us to be all baptized by one Spirit as Paul addresses to the Corinthians, then it must be referring to the activity of the Holy Spirit at the beginning of the Christian's life when the Holy Spirit gives us new spiritual life (in regeneration) and cleanses us and gives a clear brak with the power and love of sin which is the beginning of our work in progress toward sanctification.
So in this way, we don't have to wait for the baptism of the Holy Spirit to later take place because it has already taken place the instant we truely accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit happened at Pentecost for the disciples, but it also happened at conversion for the Corinthians and for us as well. There are no New Testament texts that encourage us to seek for a second experience of BAPTISM IN THE HOLY SPIRIT that comes after conversion.
What good is a baptisim if you (in general) don't believe in the name of Jesus Christ? No, you have to come first, then everything else will make sense after!
What good is a baptisim if you (in general) don't believe in the name of Jesus Christ? No, you have to come first, then everything else will make sense after!
Don't we come to God, with God's help? It's not something that WE do on our own. God has to draw us first, then the rest happens.
Don't we come to God, with God's help? It's not something that WE do on our own. God has to draw us first, then the rest happens.
Yes, I believe, the drawing, the tugging, the "little voice".....but, we need to answer! The answer sometimes sounds something like this: "God if you are there, please help me"!! "Jesus, help me!" Or whatever means by which you answer, but you need to answer to the knock......
See, only Jesus could love us like that! What door could I knock on forever and and the occupants not answer and I'm willing to stand there waiting and waiting and waiting....for that cry out: "Who's there"? Am I that patient? I'll be lying to you if I say I was.
Thank God for Jesus huh? Wow! What patience, what unconditional love, huh? See, He's been there and always has, we do need to come. He' does'nt even ask who it is, He just open His arms and welcome you! Wow! Yes, the baptism and anything else will makes sense, but you need to come and come soon!
After His baptism, as Jesus came up out of the water, the heaven's were opened and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and settling on Him.
After He came up out of the water, THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT WAS ALL OVER JESUS. HE WAS TOTALLY SATURATED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT. It must always be emphasized that being baptized by water IS NOT THE SAME as being baptized and FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT.
The word "baptized" means to be TOTALLY EMERSED...TOTALLY SATURATED...with the Holy Ghost. Just as a glass is totally emersed in water, God wants us to be totally immersed in the Holy Spirit. He wants His POWER to be a CONTINUED STREAM FLOWING THROUGH US TO MEET THE NEEDS OF THOSE AROUND US.
In speaking of the Holy Spirit, Jesus said: "He that believeth on Me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water" (John 7:38).
To be SPIRITUALLY PREPARED for Satan's attacks, we must not only be baptized in the Spirit, we must REMAIN FULL OF THE SPIRIT.
...people will go to a meeting...are filled...but before they come to the next meeting, everything they have received has "leaked out."...I know this has been my own personal experience...and I have observed people like this in my own church. The depth of our Christian experience and our commitment to God is lke a roller coaster...up one day and down the next....During a time of spiritual revival we are up on "cloud nine," but out on the battlefield...when the going gets rough...we are down. God wants the Holy Spirit to FLOW THROUGH US IN A CONTINUAL STREAM, JUST AS THE HOLY SPIRIT FLOWED THROUGH JESUS IN A CONTINUAL STREAM TO HEAL THE SICK...CAST OUT DEMONS...AND RAISE THE DEAD.
The Same Spirit That Anointed Jesus Is The Same Spirit That Anoints Us
1 Corinthians 12:11-13 It is The One and Only Spirit Who distributes all these gifts.He alone decides which gift each person should have. The human body has many parts, but the many parts make up one whole body. So it is with the body of Christ. Some of us are Jews, some are Gentiles, some are slaves, and some are free. But we have all been baptized into one body by one Spirit, and we all share the same Spirit."
The Spirit that anointed Jesus is the same Spirit that anoints us. There are not two...there are not three Spirits. There is only one! There is only one Holy Spirit...one true anointing of God...with many different ministries. The same Spirit that baptizes also anoints...bears fruit...convicts...comforts...EMPOWERS...gives gifts...guides...illuminates the mind...regenerates...sanctifies...teaches...testif ies of Christ...TRANSFORMS...!!!
The same Spirit that anointed Jesus is the same Spirit that anoints us...YES!!...by God's same Spirit!!!...
...THIS MEANS THAT WHEN WE HAVE BEEN TRULY BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AND ARE FILLED...FULL and OVERFLOWING...WE HAVE THE SAME AUTHORITY AND POWER THAT WAS DEMONSTRATED IN THE LIFE OF JESUS!!!...This is part of God's plan and purpose for our lives. He did not plan for us to go through life fearful...discouraged...overcome by our circumstances...beaten down by the devil.
GOD DID NOT PLAN ANY DEFEATS FOR US...HE PLANNED SPIRITUAL CONQUEST AND VICTORY!!!!!!!
He planned that same powerful Spirit within us so that we would be conformed and transformed into the image of His Son, whereby WE MANIFEST THE SAME MIRACLE-WORKING POWER IN OUR LIFE AS CHRIST DEMONSTRATED. Jesus said, "...as My Father hath sent Me, even so I send you" (John 20:21).
To Remain Full Of The Holy Spirit We MUST Keep Coming To The Baptizer.
Luke 3:16 "John The Baptist Prepares The Way"
John answered their questions by saying, "I baptize you with water; but someone is coming soon who is greater than I am~~so much greater that I'm not even worthy to be His slave and untie the straps of His sandals. HE WILL BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AND WITH FIRE.
So, according to the Word of God...the answer to your question is, yes..one must wait for the Second Baptism...that comes in and through the Holy Spirit and fills you to overflowing...with the POWER and AUTHORITY that comes with it that enables the one receiving the anointing to have POWER over sin in their life!!...each in their own time...depending upon their commitment to God and His will over their own.
Last edited by Verna Perry; 05-17-2009 at 08:45 PM..
There are only 7 passages in the NT where we read of someone being baptized in the Holy Spirit. It should be noted that the English translations that I will quote use the word WITH rather than IN.
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water to repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with fire
Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit.
Luke 3:16 John answered, saying to them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said to me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Spirit.
It is hard to draw any conclusion from just reading these four Scriptures in regard to what baptism with the Holy Spirit really is. What we read here is that Jesus is the one who will carry out this baptisim and he will baptize his followers.
Now the next two Scriptures strictly refer to what will happen on the day of Pentecost:
Jesus says in Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days hence.
Acts 11:16 [This is Peter referring back to the same words of Jesus that were quoted in Acts 1:5] Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.
These two passages reveal to us that whatever we may think or understand the baptism in the Holy spirit to be, it definetly occurred on Pentecost as Acts 2:14 records it. This was when the Holy Spirit fell in great power on the disciples and those with them, and they spoke in other (known) tongues or languages, and about 3,000 people were converted.
One commentator said that it is important to realize that all six verses use almost exactly the same Greek expression, with the only differences being some variation in word order or verb tense to fit the sentence, and with one example having the preposition understood rather than expressed explicitly.
Here's is the 7th verse on this topic:
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Here's a question to think about. Does 1Corinthians 12:13 refer to the same activity as the other six verses ? It appears that in the other six verses Jesus is the one doing the baptism and the Holy Spirit is the element parallel to water in physical baptism in which or with which Jesus baptizes people.
But in 1 Corinthians 12:13 it appears that we have something quite different--Jesus is not doing the baptism; it's the Holy Spirit doing it.
So it seems that baptism in the Holy Spirit occurrs at conversion. For us to be all baptized by one Spirit as Paul addresses to the Corinthians, then it must be referring to the activity of the Holy Spirit at the beginning of the Christian's life when the Holy Spirit gives us new spiritual life (in regeneration) and cleanses us and gives a clear brak with the power and love of sin which is the beginning of our work in progress toward sanctification.
So in this way, we don't have to wait for the baptism of the Holy Spirit to later take place because it has already taken place the instant we truely accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit happened at Pentecost for the disciples, but it also happened at conversion for the Corinthians and for us as well. There are no New Testament texts that encourage us to seek for a second experience of BAPTISM IN THE HOLY SPIRIT that comes after conversion.
no. The Spirit comes with faith. Not as a second "baptism".
no. The Spirit comes with faith. Not as a second "baptism".
I think I said that by showing how out of 7 Scriptures only 1 addressed to the Corinthians prove that upon our Faith, the Holy Spirit indwells the believer. There is no need for us to wait on the Spirit to come to indwell us later like He did on the day of Pentecost.
QUOTE=antredd;8857054] There are no New Testament texts that encourage us to seek for a second experience of BAPTISM IN THE HOLY SPIRIT that comes after conversion.[/quote]
Are you sure about that? What about this text:
Acts 19
1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
The Bible says they were disciples and believers. But they didn't have the baptism with the Holy Spirit. If it is something you always get upon conversion, then why did Paul bother asking if they had recieved the Holy Spirit since they believed? They hadn't just automatically recieved the Holy Spirit when they believed (like which is all too commonly taught among churchs today)
Since the Apostle Paul thought it was a good question to ask of those early believers, I'll repeat it again here for all those reading this thread: Did you recieve the Holy Spirit since you believed? When? How do you know?
The Lord has provided the means of understanding doctine and principles in more ways than just the taking out of verses from here and there.
We may understand the way of salvation and sanctification through a, the study of the types and shadows of the Old Covenant, b, the story of the journey of the children of Israel to Caanan, a type of the sanctified life, not heaven as some think (there were wars to fight there) and c, see the progress of the disciples in their spiritual growth to full grown stature in Christ.
In each of these, there are two stages.
In a, we see the change from the Old, from the physical expression to the spiritual. In b, we see that God's people wandered in the wilderness for a time, lacking in the abilities which were required by Him - and later provided by Him, in order to be victorious over sin. And third we see the disciples, as true believers, stumble and show weakness until finally they betray their Master, untilt hey are given power from on high.
It is very obvious that many believers are not living the Christians life, that is in accordance with Romans 8, as they struggle with their sins, unbelief, weakness and lack of faith. They are not living in the power which Christ makes available to them.
Those who found their way out if this failure into the fullness of servanthood and obedience, testify that they had to come to a second crisis of abandoning themselves entirely to God. You can read their testimonies on the web, people like Wesley, Finney, Edwards, Campbell etc etc. These men - and women too! were only living the normal Christian life in accordance to what we see in the scriptures. The type of life that we see usually is not normal, but abnormal. It is the abnormal life of not having been really baptised in the Spirit. It is just in word and not in reality.
If we really have been baptised then we are living in Romans 8. Its black and white.
Acts 19
1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
The Bible says they were disciples and believers. But they didn't have the baptism with the Holy Spirit. If it is something you always get upon conversion, then why did Paul bother asking if they had recieved the Holy Spirit since they believed? They hadn't just automatically recieved the Holy Spirit when they believed (like which is all too commonly taught among churchs today)
Since the Apostle Paul thought it was a good question to ask of those early believers, I'll repeat it again here for all those reading this thread: Did you recieve the Holy Spirit since you believed? When? How do you know?
Bud
Totally agree with you, Bud!
There is scriptural evidence to suggest that the baptism or filling with the Holy Spirit is a spiritual experience subsequently to conversion. The disciples were already committed followers of Christ before they were filled with the Holy Spirit.
At the close of His ministry Jesus talked with the Father concerning their relationship and their need: "They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word" (John 17:6). For these same men who already belonged to God, Jesus prayed: "Sanctify them by Your truth" (John 17:17). And to the same group our Lord commanded: "Wait for the Promise of the Father....you shall be baptised with the Holy Spirit not many days from now" (Acts 1:4-5).
Likewise, the Samaritan disciples gave every indication of being Christian believers. Of them we read: "When they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptised" (Acts 8:15-17).
God proposes not only to save His people from their sins, but also to fill them with the Holy Spirit, as on the Day of Pentecost, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38).
While the Holy Spirit indwells every believer, yet God both offers and commands us to be completely filled with the Spirit (Eph.5:18).
This blessing is granted only to Christ's followers who hunger for the Spirit and, in an act of faith, purposely open their lives to this complete indwelling. Jesus promised that the heavenly Father would "give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him" (Luke 11:13; Matt.5:6-8). It is this life of deepened fellowship with God to which Paul exhorts, "If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit" (Gal.5:25).
****************
Joel 2:28-29
"And it shall come to pass afterward that I will pour My Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions. And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
Now...... throughout the OT God's continuing goal is to share His presence with His people. This is seen from creation through the Exodus and beyond. Ultimately, the Presence is what the tabernacle and the temple are about. But again and again because of their sin the people were unable to manifest the character of God with the result that they could not experience the divine presence.
In Joel God promised once again that He would be with them (Joel 2:27). But that promise is now accompanied with something which would eventually be known as "the promise of the Holy Spirit" (Joel 2:28-32, also Acts 2:33; Gal.3:14).
The people had discovered what God had known all along there is a defect in the human spirit which makes us unable to do what is right consistently. We may choose to do it, wish to do it, yet we cannot. The only hope is that the divine Spirit Himself might inhabit us and empower us to do what we cannot. No longer would God's presence be merely with us, now He would be in us (John 14:17).
This is the nature of God's astounding promise through Joel. The only hope of enjoying God's presence and final salvation is that God should take up residence in us. This revelation is not peculiar to Joel, being found in Isa.32:15; 44:3; Ezek.36:27; 37:14; 39:29. Furthermore, it is evident that John the Baptist understood one ministry of the Messiah to be making the Holy Spirit available to all people (Matt.3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:33). Thus Peter's appropriation of Joel to explain the Pentecost experience (Acts 2:16-21) was not done on the spur of the moment. He was evidently expressing a basic theological tenet. If there was any surprise in what he said, it was that he applied the realization of the promise to the work of Jesus of Nazareth.
Blessings
Last edited by Cyber Munchkin; 05-18-2009 at 05:50 AM..
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Be full to overflowing with the Holy Spirit...
