How does one get saved? (testimony, zealous, Israel, verse)

[JamesMRohde]

I found God relates to so very many people that have various beliefs, not only contrary to each other, but wrong ideas about Him. I can see Him in these people. (Until now, I am one of these people too. If I wasn't I wouldn't still be dying.) My explanation is that God relates to us person to person, not because we have every doctinal "t" crossed and every behavioral "i" dotted. He knows that our relationship will always be developing; and, it is through that relatedness He will correct and perfect us.

Many times, as I go here and there in my daily path, I find special fellowships are set up for me. I might be walking in the aisles of the supermarket, for instance, and I see Jesus in someone there. I mention that fact to them and off we go on a journey together into God. Sometimes an instruction enters prophetic revealings and glories to God are flowing. Sometimes the fire, like electric rain washes over us. Sometimes His presence is so overwhelming I decide, "If I fall down, then I fall down. That's all. So what!" We sometimes dance, two strangers no longer because of the over-riding Presence of our lovely Lord.

Philippians 2:8-11 (CLV)...
8 ...and, being found in fashion as a human, He humbles Himself, becoming obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore, also, God highly exalts Him, and graces Him with the name that is above every name,
10 that in the name of Jesus every knee should be bowing, celestial and terrestrial and subterranean,
11 and every tongue should be acclaiming that Jesus Christ is Lord, for the glory of God, the Father.

[Thirdparty]

31Then Jesus' mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. 32A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, "Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you."

33"Who are my mother and my brothers?" he asked. 34Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! 35Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother."

[Eusebius]

Originally Posted by Thirdparty

31Then Jesus' mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. 32A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, "Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you."

33"Who are my mother and my brothers?" he asked. 34Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! 35Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother."

And what was God's will that would make them Christ's brother and sister? It was God's will that they believe He is the Messiah.

Of course they could not believe Christ died for them at that point in time because He didn't.

Now then back to the poor street person that needs saved:

Some of you want to take him through Seminary School in order to save him.

Some of you want to make him repent, get him baptized, make him as Christ to come into his kidneys or heart or splean, whatever.

Some of you want him to do His commandments to be saved.

Did the apostle Paul ever require those things for salvation?

Here is what Paul preached for salvation:

1Co 15:1-4 Now I am making known to you, brethren, the evangel which
I bring to you, which also you accepted, in which also you stand, (2)
through which also you are saved, if you are retaining what I said in
bringing the evangel to you, outside and except you believe feignedly."
(3) For I give over to you among the first what also I accepted, that
Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, (4) and that He was
entombed, and that He has been roused the third day according to the
scriptures,

Notice anything missing?
No baptism.
No keeping Christ's commandments.
No asking Christ to come into your liver.

Don't make it so hard for those you are witnessing to.

Oh, and if you didn't believe the evangel per the above what Paul says, then you are not saved.

It is that simple. Keep it simple. God does not require seminary to be saved.

[mzjamiedawn]

Originally Posted by Eusebius

And what was God's will that would make them Christ's brother and sister? It was God's will that they believe He is the Messiah.

Of course they could not believe Christ died for them at that point in time because He didn't.

Now then back to the poor street person that needs saved:

Some of you want to take him through Seminary School in order to save him.

Some of you want to make him repent, get him baptized, make him as Christ to come into his kidneys or heart or splean, whatever.

Some of you want him to do His commandments to be saved.

Did the apostle Paul ever require those things for salvation?

Here is what Paul preached for salvation:

1Co 15:1-4 Now I am making known to you, brethren, the evangel which
I bring to you, which also you accepted, in which also you stand, (2)
through which also you are saved, if you are retaining what I said in
bringing the evangel to you, outside and except you believe feignedly."
(3) For I give over to you among the first what also I accepted, that
Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, (4) and that He was
entombed, and that He has been roused the third day according to the
scriptures,

Notice anything missing?
No baptism.
No keeping Christ's commandments.
No asking Christ to come into your liver.

Don't make it so hard for those you are witnessing to.

Oh, and if you didn't believe the evangel per the above what Paul says, then you are not saved.

It is that simple. Keep it simple. God does not require seminary to be saved.

The problem with the above post is that you are considering partially what Paul has said to the Corinthians, and shutting out what else he and others said about salvation. You cannot pick and choose what works best for you, Eusebius. You must take in the whole word. The whole word does show repentance, baptism, and keeping His commandments and so forth.

You are doing people a disservice by telling them all they must do is believe.

ETA: If you think sharing the full gospel with people is "taking them through seminary", then so be it. I'll share the full gospel, as I don't have a problem taking an extra five minutes to tell them what God expects of them.

[pcamps]

Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn

The problem with the above post is that you are considering partially what Paul has said to the Corinthians, and shutting out what else he and others said about salvation. You cannot pick and choose what works best for you, Eusebius. You must take in the whole word. The whole word does show repentance, baptism, and keeping His commandments and so forth.

You are doing people a disservice by telling them all they must do is believe.

ETA: If you think sharing the full gospel with people is "taking them through seminary", then so be it. I'll share the full gospel, as I don't have a problem taking an extra five minutes to tell them what God expects of them.

The Holy Spirit never laid out any expectations in responding to His bidding of me.
Now i find it is God working in me to both will and to do of His good pleasure.
John 15 clearly shows there is no expectations for growth as a son of God , just to abide , seizing from our own works our own expectations of ourselves and the most difficult one of all for the christian to let go of this false concept that God is expectant of you.
If christianity is about cleaning up your act it is no different from all the other religions out there.
No wonder its in a mess and is mocked and not taken serious.
Why ? because it's become a works based gospel under the disguise of faith, so there is no reality .

[mzjamiedawn]

Originally Posted by pcamps

The Holy Spirit never laid out any expectations in responding to His bidding of me.
Now i find it is God working in me to both will and to do of His good pleasure.
John 15 clearly shows there is no expectations for growth as a son of God , just to abide , seizing from our own works our own expectations of ourselves and the most difficult one of all for the christian to let go of this false concept that God is expectant of you.
If christianity is about cleaning up your act it is no different from all the other religions out there.
No wonder its in a mess and is mocked and not taken serious.
Why ? because it's become a works based gospel under the disguise of faith, so there is no reality .

It never ceases to amaze me that some people think obedience is a work, but believing is not.

There is an "our part" when it comes to salvation. Otherwise everyone is saved. Let me ask you a question. Do you believe this statement...?

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

If so, do you believe it's telling you that you must confess with your mouth and believe, or is it saying you just have to believe? Is confessing with your mouth a work? If so, then why isn't believing?

[Fundamentalist]

Originally Posted by june 7th

June is sad because you wrote this:



...implying that you hesitated. Wanted to hear other Christian's responses to me, first. I found that somewhat sad. -Because I suspect I know why. And yet, you also claim at the same time to want to bring other's to your God. But you hesitated. I'm surprised that you would need or want to hear other's reactions to what I said, first. Why wouldn't you have just attempted to have a dialogue with me in response to what I wrote?

But rather than actually try and have a dialogue with me, you merely screamed: REPENT! -Which I haven't yet, obviously. Screaming at an atheist about the need for repentence just isn't gunna do it. If anything, it merely reinforces their athiest stance.

So June is sad because: If I really did pass you on the street tomorrow, what would you tell me? What would you say? Would you be able to have a conversation with me, based upon what you know already? Would that be possible? -Because that post by June certainly said something.

Lastly, I was sad because I thought: Fundamentalist will 'save June.' (Just throwing in a bit of light hearted humor there!) -But you didn't even try. Interesting.

And sad. Ya can't save any atheist if you can't talk with them other than yelling 'repent!' And I'm an atheist you know. That should therefore make me...June: Soft target.

June my friend, you have heard the gospel. I am not holding anything back from you

[smilers2001]

Here is what Paul preached for salvation:

...

Oh, and if you didn't believe the evangel per the above what Paul says, then you are not saved.

It is that simple. Keep it simple. God does not require seminary to be saved.

I have to back up the Fundamentalist throughout this debate. I think i agree with everything he has said. Why is it that Eusebius only seems to hear what Paul said? Is the rest of Scripture not God's word?

To understand scripture fully, we need to consider it in its entirety.

Luke 13:3 "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." - That quote was directly from the Lord Jesus Christ, yet somehow acording to Eusebius, it is not true.

Peter says in Acts 3:19 "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord."

Was Peter lying, was he out on the street preaching some irrelevent point?

Here's one from Paul himself:
Acts 17:29-31 "Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead."


Again Paul speaking to King Agrippa says in Acts 26:19-20

"Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance."


In 2 Timothy 2:19 Paul says "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity."


I could also go on but I'm getting a bit repetitive.



What you are doing Eusebius, is cherry picking a select few verses that don't mention repentance just because they suit your argument. To correctly understand the teachings of scripture we must consider it as a whole.



Every verse is the infallible word of God and so the correct understanding will have no clashes with scripture. Your argument falls far short of this.



My answer to your argument is that although repentence is not mentioned in your references, it is clear from scripture as a whole that it is vital.

Unless you can answer the multitude of verses that DEMAND repentance from sinners your argument falls flat.

This week gospel of simple belief without repentance will take many to hell.

Jesus, talking of the judgement day, says in Matthew 7:22-23
"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."


Those people obviously believed in God, they call Christ Lord, and yet they didn't repent, notice they are workers of iniquity. They are told to depart, Christ never knew them.

[Eusebius]

Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn

The problem with the above post is that you are considering partially what Paul has said to the Corinthians, and shutting out what else he and others said about salvation. You cannot pick and choose what works best for you, Eusebius. You must take in the whole word. The whole word does show repentance, baptism, and keeping His commandments and so forth.

You are doing people a disservice by telling them all they must do is believe.

ETA: If you think sharing the full gospel with people is "taking them through seminary", then so be it. I'll share the full gospel, as I don't have a problem taking an extra five minutes to tell them what God expects of them.

It is you who are doing people a disservice by binding heavy loads on them they cannot bear. They are tired of your church crap.

1. Paul, who is the apostle of the nations, NEVER said one has to repent to be saved.
2. Paul, who is the apostle of the nations, NEVER said one has to be baptized to be saved.
3. Paul, who is the apostle of the nations, NEVER said we have to keep His commandments to be saved. That is just a load of crap.

The gospel is so simple you just don't get it. It goes right over your head.

It is:
Christ died for our sins. Do you believe it?

If you realize all your sins have been died for; past, present and future, there is no need for all those requirements for salvation you bind on people.

[Eusebius]

Originally Posted by smilers2001

I have to back up the Fundamentalist throughout this debate. I think i agree with everything he has said. Why is it that Eusebius only seems to hear what Paul said? Is the rest of Scripture not God's word?

To understand scripture fully, we need to consider it in its entirety.

You just don't get it. Of course the rest of the Scripture is the Word of God but it is not TO us. Did you make a covenant with God that you would do all the law? And did you tell God all the curses are upon you if you break one of the laws of Moses? Well, what's the matter? Isn't the rest of the Scripture not God's word? You just don't know what you are talking about. Read Galatians about mixing law with grace. Until then, don't waste my time.

Peter, James and John made an agreement with Paul that Paul would be for the nations and they would be for the Circumcision. (see Galatians 2).

Paul is the nation's apostle. He gives us what we need. We don't go to the Circumcision and force what God what making them do and forcing it on us of the nations, the Uncircumcision. Peter was compelling the nations to be Judaizing prior to agreeing with Paul:

Gal 2:14 But when I perceived that they are not correct in their attitude toward the truth of the evangel, I said to Cephas in front of all, "If you, being inherently a Jew, are living as the nations, and not as the Jews, how are you compelling the nations to be judaizing?

It really is just this simple:
Believe God that Christ died for your sins and you are saved.

If you believe otherwise then you are not saved.