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On words that have been translated as “eternal”, “forever”, “incurable” in the scriptures
Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude
7)--until--God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom"
16:53-55).
Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jer.
30:12)-until--the Lord "will restore health" and heal
her wounds (Jer. 30:17).
The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Mic. 1:9)-until--
Lord "will restore ... the fortunes of Samaria." (Ez.
16:53).
An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the
Lord's congregation "forever"-until--the tenth
generation (Deut. 23:3):
Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were
"everlasting", that is -until-- they "were shattered"
Hab. 3 3:6).
The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting"
priesthood (Ex. 40:15), that is-until-it was
superceded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Hebrews
7:14-18).
Many translations of the Bible inform us that God
would dwell in Solomon's Temple "forever" (1 Kings
8:13), that is,--until the Temple was destroyed.
The Law of Moses was to be an "everlasting covenant"
(Leviticus 24:8) yet we read in the New Covenant the
first was "done away" and "abolished" (2 Corinthians
3:11,13), and God "made the first old" (Hebrews 8:13).
God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah
"forever"-until--the Lord delivers him from the large
fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6,10; 1: 17);
Egypt and Elam will "rise no more" (Jer.
25:27)-until--the Lord will "restore the fortunes of
Egypt" (Ez. 29:14) and "restore the fortunes of Elam"
(Jer. 49:39).
"Moab is destroyed" (Jer. 48:4, 42)-until--the Lord
"will restore the fortunes of Moab" (Jer. 48:47).
Israel's judgment lasts "forever"-until--the Spirit is
poured out and God restores it (Isa. 32:13-15).
The King James Bible, as well as many others, tells us
that a bondslave was to serve his master "forever"
(Exodus 21:6), that is,--until--his death.
So, narrow is the way to life and few find it-until--
and His church confiscate the "strong man's" booty,
setting the captives free so God becomes all in all
(Isa. 61, Luke 11:21-22, Matt. 7:13; 16:18, 1 Cor.
15:24-28).
John 3:3-6
3 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, unless you are born again, you cannot be in God's kingdom."
4 Nicodemus said, "But if a person is already old, how can he be born again? He cannot enter his mother's womb again. So how can a person be born a second time?"
5 But Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, unless you are born from water and the Spirit, you cannot enter God's kingdom.
6 Human life comes from human parents, but spiritual life comes from the Spirit.
John 14:26
But the Helper will teach you everything and will cause you to remember all that I told you. This Helper is the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name.
John 15:1-8....Jesus Is Like a Vine
1 "I am the true vine; my Father is the gardener.
2 He cuts off every branch of mine that does not produce fruit. And he trims and cleans every branch that produces fruit so that it will produce even more fruit.
3 You are already clean because of the words I have spoken to you.
4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. A branch cannot produce fruit alone but must remain in the vine. In the same way, you cannot produce fruit alone but must remain in me.
5 "I am the vine, and you are the branches. If any remain in me and I remain in them, they produce much fruit. But without me they can do nothing.
6 If any do not remain in me, they are like a branch that is thrown away and then dies. People pick up dead branches, throw them into the fire, and burn them.
7 If you remain in me and follow my teachings, you can ask anything you want, and it will be given to you.
8 You should produce much fruit and show that you are my followers, which brings glory to my Father
17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:
19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.
14For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. (kjv)
1 Corinthians 15:22
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."
John 12:32
"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."
1 Timothy 4:9-11:
"This is a faithful saying worthy of all acceptance. For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especiallyof those who believe." (KJV)
Revelation 21:5
"And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful."
Philippians 2:11
"And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
This is the ministry of reconciliation which has been committed unto us" ...
John 3:3-6 3 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, unless you are born again, you cannot be in God's kingdom." 4 Nicodemus said, "But if a person is already old, how can he be born again? He cannot enter his mother's womb again. So how can a person be born a second time?" 5 But Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, unless you are born from water and the Spirit, you cannot enter God's kingdom. 6 Human life comes from human parents, but spiritual life comes from the Spirit.
John 14:26
But the Helper will teach you everything and will cause you to remember all that I told you. This Helper is the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name.
John 15:1-8....Jesus Is Like a Vine 1 "I am the true vine; my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch of mine that does not produce fruit. And he trims and cleans every branch that produces fruit so that it will produce even more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the words I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. A branch cannot produce fruit alone but must remain in the vine. In the same way, you cannot produce fruit alone but must remain in me. 5 "I am the vine, and you are the branches. If any remain in me and I remain in them, they produce much fruit. But without me they can do nothing. 6 If any do not remain in me, they are like a branch that is thrown away and then dies. People pick up dead branches, throw them into the fire, and burn them. 7 If you remain in me and follow my teachings, you can ask anything you want, and it will be given to you. 8 You should produce much fruit and show that you are my followers, which brings glory to my Father.
In John 3:3-6 Jesus is telling him that no one in this age or in the age to come can enter into the kingdom without being baptized in the spirit. That much we all agree on ... Now as to what the kingdom of God is, and what it means to be baptized with the spirit we might disagree upon.
mat 23 - 39
"For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."
This passage shows us clearly that there will be some who enter into Christ rest who are not his brethren, but have doe good to his brethren. That is to say, some who were not believers, but did good unto believers in Christ.
John 15:1-8, demonstrates the fact that it is through Christ only that life is attained. In this age, one is either within Christ, and is alive, or is not and is yet dead and is in danger of suffering Gods fiery judgment, which is his final means of his reconciliation and subjection of all things to himself.
For as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive.
Do we all Die, Ilene? Does Adam`s ALL encompass EVERYONE?
Why do you think Adam is greater than Christ?
It`s the same ALL, regardless if your church tells you something different. So far, you have satan being victorious over God and you have Adam greater than Christ!
Romans 8:20-22
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
What is it you`re not getting about these verses?
Were we made subject to vanity, willingly?
We were made subject to vanity by who?
Why were we made subject to vanity?
Will we be delivered?
We will?
Well, what do you know!
It`s all right there in your KJV. Just read and believe!
Ask your pastor to help you with these verses and then get back to us.
What's funny is I've never heard of Young's literal translation.
How did I come to the knowledge of God's love for all?
Just Me and God.
That's it.
No one else.
No church group.
No preacher.
No church.
Just me. And God's spirit taking me through the fire.
The only version of the bible I had was the KJV.
God walked me through it.
Again, it's HIS love for all that has enlarged my own heart.
It's HIS love for ALL mankind that has completely changed my life.
It truly is the glad tidings of great JOY to know that all will be reconciled.
That every knee will buckle under the weight of God's love and every tongue will shout with joyful praise "Jesus is Lord!"
Thank you Father, for the work you have done, for the surgery you performed in my heart, that has allowed me to love in a profound way.
To LOVE in the most geuine, compassionate, caring and PROFOUND way.
None of this phony stuff. None of the empty words. None of the words with double meaning.
But TRUE profound, unbelievable LOVE for all of mankind.
No matter who they are or where they came from.
No matter.
They are ALL my brothers and sisters.
Thank you, Father....
Thank you for creating such a diverse, beautiful group of people to call your family.
Thank you.
I love you, Father.
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto usthe word of reconciliation.
And here we have a scripture taken COMPLETELY out of context, which is the other ploy and deceit of universalism and other false teachings.
When you look at the scriptures surrounding the one quoted above that is cherry picked to suit one's own desires, then you see exactly what the context is and what is meant by the above verse. And it has NOTHING to do with universal reconciliation.
Universalists are taught to quote and say different scriptures and things that seem to line up with their doctrine, but like I said before most cults who operate in this manner are living in darkness and following their own agendas, that have nothing to do with the truth of God's Word. God's true Word has everything to do with Jesus Christ and His sacrifice for the world's sins. Universalism has to do with control, domination through brainwashing and an end result of those they manage to recruit of eternal damnation.
Now is not the time to be falling for crap like this, people. Jesus Christ's return is so close and it is a matter of eternal life or death that we stand firmly of His Word. Universalism is straight from the playbook of Satan himself and anyone deceiving people in this manner WILL answer eternally for it. The Bible is clear about that, make no mistake.
Now to address the twisting of the meaning of the scripture above:
2 Corinthians 5:11-21 (NIV)
The Ministry of Reconciliation
11Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience. 12We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again, but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us, so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen rather than in what is in the heart. 13If we are out of our mind, it is for the sake of God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. 14For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. 15And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again. 16So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Ok. Verse 18 is the one in question here. So look at verse 17 and 19. Look at all of the verses in the context of what is actually being said here.
It becomes very obvious from reading all verses that it is speaking about the reconciliation of those who ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST. Those who do not accept him will not be reconciled!! It's crystal clear and that's why it is SO important for anyone searching for the TRUTH to get to the heart of it for themselves and do not take anyone's teaching as truth. The Bible tells us to test everything!!!
It's as simple as picking up your Bible and reading.
In 2 Corithians the Apostle Paul was speaking to the Church of Corinth and Christians, not unbelievers. And what is so incredibly ironic is that Paul had to COME BACK to Corinth because of false teachers who had come there challenging his authority and teaching!! What happened to Paul THEN is still happening RIGHT NOW!!
All who accept Christ WILL be reconciled to God.
All who DO NOT accept Jesus Christ WILL NOT be reconciled to God.
Crystal clear. Jesus is the way to reconciliation, he is the ONLY way. People who do not accept Jesus Christ will spend an eternity in the lake of fire. It's what the Bible teaches.....anything else is Satan's lies.
There is absolutely no need for me to quote scripture from the Bible when you don't even use the Bible in your arguments! Besides, we (Christians) have quoted them already, even right here in this thread.
It's already been discussed....you can go back two years and find thread after thread with universalists copying and pasting the same things and quoting the same "scriptures". Happy reading.
There cannot be a legitimate discussion when universalists do not use the Bible when quoting scriptures. The YLT is not the Bible....it is ONE man's interpretation of God's Holy Word. Universalists don't adhere to the Bible because it doesn't say what they want it to say.
Universalists want to discuss alternate meanings of words, not what God's Word actually says. Everything in the KJV was agreed upon by many scholars as being a proper and accurate translation. The fact that so many people were involved in the translation and that ALL AGREED that it was accurate is a miracle in and of itself and speaks to the very glaringly obvious fact that God had His Hand in it.
You accuse Christians of following some incorrect translation and man's teachings but actually that is EXACTLY what Universalists are doing, because you don't like what the Bible says.
The truth is that universalists follow ONE man's interpretation because they don't like the REAL truth. Most cults have ONE LEADER.
YLT was written by ONE MAN.
The Book or Mormon was written by ONE MAN.
The JW's and the Watchtower were started by ONE MAN.
Scientology was started by ONE MAN>>>>do you see a trend here??
Those that can see, see it very clearly. They are all lies, perpetrated by "anti-Christs". This spirit of the anti-christ is alive and thriving. They claim Christ, but everything they teach says otherwise. There's always enough truth mixed with the lies to make it seem legitimate.
Those of us who know that hell is real and eternal don't like it either, but we honor and serve a God that has the final say and has authority over EVERYTHING and we would not dare try and change HIS Word to suit ourselves.
Accept God's Word for what it is and win souls like we are commanded, rather than perpetuating the lie that one man created and trying to appease and ease your own minds. Your minds may be appeased temporarily in this life, but they will be eternally tormented in the next.
The doctrine of universal reconciliation has been alive in the world since the time of Christ and there is ample historical evidence to back it up. In the scheme of things it goes back into Jewish belief. The Jews never believed in eternal hell and they still don't to this day.
This is the only thing worth a response from that entire post.
The bolded part above speaks to the lie of universalism. Universalism is a new name for an old false teaching, just like "new ageism" is a "new" term to define false beliefs that go back to biblical times. None of this "stuff" is new.....it's like renaming bell bottom pants from the 70's to "wide legs" for the "new millenium". It's the same ugly thing, with a new "cooler" name.
The subtle lie here (remember, just enough truth to make the lie seem legit) is that even Jews don't believe in hell. Really? Which Jews?
Traditional Judaism includes belief in both heaven and hell, as we will see below. How is one's destination decided? The School of Shammai offered this description:
"There will be three groups on the Day of Judgment: one of thoroughly righteous people, one of thoroughly wicked people and one of people in between. The first group will be immediately inscribed for everlasting life; the second group will be doomed in Gehinnom [Hell], as it says, "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life and some to reproaches and everlasting abhorrence" [Daniel 12:2], the third will go down to Gehinnom and squeal and rise again, as it says, "And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried. They shall call on My name and I will answer them" [Zechariah 13:9]... [Babylonian Talmud, tractate Rosh Hashanah 16b-17a]"
Traditional Jews ARE NOT CHRISTIANS. They do not believe Jesus to be the Messiah....they are still looking for their Messiah. It doesn't matter what they believe about hell because they are not even Christians!! They will have to repent and receive Christ just like anyone else or suffer eternal damnation as well
Messianic Jews DO believe in Jesus Christ and DO believe in an eternal hell.
You have just proven.....in writing.....right here on city-data the twisted lies that spew out of the mouths of universalists.
I see you all are fond of directing comments to "seekers of the truth" or those lurking and reading. So I have my own advice to those seeking the TRUTH who may be reading this:
Please take heed to what Ilene Wright is saying because she is one of the few who have the truth. Satan is perpetuating one lie after another right now because he knows his time is growing short. He's pulling out all the stops, he's pulled every last thing out of his bag of evil tricks and unleashed it on the earth because we are living in the last days before the second coming of Jesus Christ.
Now is the time to accept Him and to remove yourself from the swirling cesspool of lies. Find a Bible-believing (KJV or equivalent) church or study group and immerse yourself in the Words of that Bible and question everything. Don't take any person's word on anything.....you believe ONLY what the Bible tells you. Jesus is waiting for you.
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