When people die, they dont go to heaven or hell.... (paradise, Gospel)

[Richmonder27]

When people die they wait in Paradise. This is until Jesus returns to earth. Then everyone will face the great judgement.

The people that are saved will go to heaven automatically.

The ones that are not will be judged accordingly and sent to hell.

However, the Bible says that Hell is not eternal. Only those in Christ Jesus have eternal life

Those in hell will perish!

Read Revelations if you dont believe me. When Jesus said Hell was forever, he meant that it is final.

People in hell must die a second death.

Hell is not meant for us- it was meant for the devil.

[smilers2001]

Originally Posted by Richmonder27

When people die they wait in Paradise. This is until Jesus returns to earth. Then everyone will face the great judgement.

The people that are saved will go to heaven automatically.

The ones that are not will be judged accordingly and sent to hell.

However, the Bible says that Hell is not eternal. Only those in Christ Jesus have eternal life

Those in hell will perish!

Read Revelations if you dont believe me. When Jesus said Hell was forever, he meant that it is final.

People in hell must die a second death.

Hell is not meant for us- it was meant for the devil.

Can you please give the scripture references that lead you to make these statements. Particularly concerning people waiting in a paradise after death, and also concerning hell not being eternal. Thanks

[ShanaBrown]

Those in hell will perish!

Many will perish, however, all will eventually be restored to the Father. The old man must die. It was God's good pleasure to reconcile all to Himself. (Colossians 1) God bless.

[Dark Khan]

O rly? Can u prove this?

[.sparrow.]

Originally Posted by shanabrown

many will perish, however, all will eventually be restored to the father. the old man must die. It was god's good pleasure to reconcile all to himself. (colossians 1) god bless.

bingo.

[smilers2001]

Originally Posted by ShanaBrown

Many will perish, however, all will eventually be restored to the Father. The old man must die. It was God's good pleasure to reconcile all to Himself. (Colossians 1) God bless.

That verse Colossians 1:20 can easily be explained by the argument that while verses 16 and 17 are clearly talking about Christ's preeminance in creation and in all things, verses 18 and 19 are talking about Christs preeminance in his Church, therefore it could be argued that verse 20 is refering to all of the redeemed people of Christ's church, i.e. it refers to all within Christ's church rather than all within creation.

I know that we will disagree on this and can't persuade each other either way, I may not be definitely right on the interpretation, but I have a way of explaining that verse that makes reasonable sense and that lines up with the theology I believe. If I could explain the verses in the bible that talk of eternal seperation from God then I would quite like to be able to believe in universal salvation, however I can't

I'll give one passage as an example:

2 Thessalonians 1
"1Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: 2Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;
4So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
5Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
6Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
11Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
12That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ."


My problem is this, if the LORD will truly save all men, why then does verse 9 say that the ungodly will be punished with "EVERLASTING destruction"?


I just can't see how that verse can be interpreted any other way than to say that the destruction is everlasting. If it is everlasting, then God will not save all men.


If you can explain this verse then I would be interested to hear your answer.

[alanMolstad]

When you die...
The body goes into the grave..turns to dust, becomes part of the earth and becomes something else one day.

The soul goes to the Father.

At the return of Christ, all the Church in heaven comes with him and we rise up in new everlasting bodies of flesh and bone.

The damned also rise up in new everlasting bodies.

The Church goes up to heaven as Christ rose up to heaven in his body, and is with the Lord forever.
The damned enter their everlasting state of damnation...

[ShanaBrown]

Hi Smilers, it is good to meet you. First, let's take a look at these verses in Colossians 1:

Colossians 1:15-20
15. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.16. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.17. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.18. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.19. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,20. and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven

Verses 15-17 is speaking of all things that have been created through Jesus. Verse 18, the first part is speaking specifically about the church

He is also head of the body, the church;

down to verse 19, Paul is speaking again about all things being reconciled to God, whether things in heaven or things on earth. It is universal in scope. Back in a little bit. God bless.

[alanMolstad]

Originally Posted by ShanaBrown

whether things on earth or things in heaven

.

I think the "things on earth" are us.
We are the things on earth that the verse is talking about.
The church, the saved members of his Holy church.
Christians.

I also think the "things in heaven" is the members of the Christian church that have passed on and are now with the Lord.

All of us, the church active and the church at rest will be saved when Christ returns.

[ShanaBrown]

Smilers, here is a more literal translation of the passage in 1 Thessalonians. I like to use literal translations.


2 Thessalonians 1

1Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, to the assembly of Thessalonians in God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ:
2Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ!
3We ought to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because increase greatly doth your faith, and abound doth the love of each one of you all, to one another;
4so that we ourselves do glory in you in the assemblies of God, for your endurance and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye bear;
5a token of the righteous judgment of God, for your being counted worthy of the reign of God, for which also ye suffer,
6since [it is] a righteous thing with God to give back to those troubling you -- trouble,
7and to you who are troubled -- rest with us in the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven, with messengers of his power,
8in flaming fire, giving vengeance to those not knowing God, and to those not obeying the good news of our Lord Jesus Christ;
9who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength,
10when He may come to be glorified in his saints, and to be wondered at in all those believing -- because our testimony was believed among you -- in that day;

Their punishment and exclusion is for a specific period of time. The scriptures speak of the ages, indefinite periods of time, which have a beginning and an end. This thread has a lot of information about the words which have been translated as "eternity" "eternal" in some translations. Post #6 has some good links for study, research.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/christianity/623203-does-aion-aijwvn-mean-everlastng.html


I believe that many will experience destruction, exclusion, death, the punishments of God, however, all are to be reunited in Jesus Christ according to many scriptures. I will post some below. Hope this helps. God bless.