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popular writers do not point out these important differences,
Popular prophecy writers do not point out ANY differences if the differences threaten their bottom line sales totals. That's why pre-trib rapture literature is best-selling stuff. Christians gobble up this feel-good, happy-pill drivel because it gives them a spiritual shot of morphine to deaden the financial, physical, mental and emotional pain they suffer from day to day. These prophecy "experts" are scum of the lowest order--preying on gullible Christians looking for a quick fix from their troubles. They (the pre-trib prophecy teachers) will burn in the hottest depths of hell for leading so many Christians astray. "Lord, Lord, in Your Name didn't we tithe from the millions of dollars we duped out your unsuspecting children, and in Your Name build giant publishing empires and top-rated TV prophecy programs?" And then will I say to them, "I never knew you. Depart from Me all ye that worked such iniquity!" Payback is going to be a ***** for all of these scoundrels.
John 17:15 (JESUS praying to The Father) "I pray NOT that thou shouldest TAKE THEM OUT OF THE WORLD, but that thou should keep them from evil." Wait did Jesus pray AGAINST removal from the earth?
Proverbs 10:30 The righteous shall NEVER be REMOVED. Again no removal?
Was Job raptured out of his time of tribulation (testing)? NO
Was Joseph raptured out of the pit or prison? NO
Was Daniel raptured out of the lion's den? NO
Was King David raptured out of all his tribulation? NO
Exodus 7:18 through 12:30 records the Israelites were IN Egypt for all ten plagues of God's wrath.
Was Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego raptured out of the firery furnace? NO
Was Jesus or any of the Apostles raptured out of their persecution? NO
Was Paul raptured out of all his tribulations (2 Corithians 11:23-27)? NO
NO RAPTURE, JUST MUCH TRIBULATION
God hasn't changes, so why would He suddenly change for a rapture?
Is Jesus coming back? Yes, just not in a secret rapture. Too much LaHaye and Camron for me. It is a fact that no Christian churches, congregations or fellowships existing prior to 1830 proclaimed a RAPTURE doctrine, and all accepted the Biblical truth that Christians would be on earth during the time of great tribulation. Before 1830, the single RAPTURE Scripture of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 were accepted as resurrection verses.
Was Elijah raptured? Enoch? Jesus? Yes, yes and yes!
Was Noah, and his family, saved from the flood? Yes!
The Bride will be raptured before the tribulation period. God's 144 Jews will be raptured during the tribulation period.
Was Elijah raptured? Enoch? Jesus? Yes, yes and yes!
Was Noah, and his family, saved from the flood? Yes!
.
Elijah was taken...this is very true
He might come back in the Book of Rev and die, but we know he was taken
Enoch?...Im not so sure...
Jesus died (yes he rose again, but he did die and was not saved from having to die)
Noah was not taken anywhere, but had to build with his own hands the means he used to live during the flood, (God didnt build the boat for him) later he died too.
I still dont see any point to the worry about what system , (Pre/mid/post trib) is correct...
To sum my views up:
So, if it's just an interesting topic with no real action needed no matter what system is correct, then I call it "a bit pointless".
Its not in the same class as dealing with a question like "Did Christ rise for the dead for my salvation?"
That type of question can cause a real life and death change in the way a person believes .
But the difference between being post-tribber and a mid-tribber and a pre-tribber is minor in real life.
None do anything different than the others right?
They dont dress different,
They dont wear their hair different
They dont drive a different car.
They pay the same taxes as others...
getting lots of people to believe in one way over a different way will have ZERO effect on the timing of the events in question.
Just because lots of people might switch to a pre-tribber point of view, will not speed that ending up right?
same with the other views...lots of people believeing in them does not matter right?
pre-mid-post are all in the same boat in the end...
The only difference is in the order things will happen that are totally out of their control anyway....
am I right?
There's a big difference between a pre-tribber and post-tribber... that is one who will be hunted down and beheaded by the minions of the AC or being part of the elect whom God will protect and feed in the wilderness of Jordan!
The Bible is very clear... the elect are those who obey the 10 Commandments and have the Testimony of Jesus Christ. They are the 144000 virgin men who will become witnesses to preach the Gospel to all corners of the earth and the "Woman" (Rev 12) whom God will provide the "wings of an eagle" so she could escape the Great Tribulation. These are the people God will protect until the end of the GT and will be raptured in the gathering of the saints.
In Revelation, John saw the multitude of people who came out of the Great Trib and was told they are those beheaded and washed their robes clean. So this is telling us their robes were unclean in the first place... that means they are Christians who don't obey the 10 Commandments even though they have the Testimony of Jesus Christ. For wilfully violating God's Law such as the Sabbath, making graven images, etc., God has sent them a strong Delusion!
I believe this Delusion is the belief in the Pre-trib rapture. Multitude of Christians will be waiting for this event that they will not heed the call of the prophet to move to a safe place... thereby subjecting them to a trial of fire to redeem themselves... and that they will be found worthy to be resurrected in the gathering of saints.
There's a big difference between a pre-tribber and post-tribber... .
No there is not!
You didnt list a single difference in what is asked of people who believe one system over another...
Except for the 'virgin" comment, (but let me tell you, That ship has sailed, so I cant do anything about that).
There is no difference in knowing one system is right...there is not one single difference in what any of the different systems ask of the people that believe in them...
This is all about the order of events that are totally out of our control....
Was Elijah raptured? Enoch? Jesus? Yes, yes and yes!
Was Noah, and his family, saved from the flood? Yes!
The Bride will be raptured before the tribulation period. God's 144 Jews will be raptured during the tribulation period.
Now it very plainly says, "As it was in the days of Noah". As it was. Not different, not the opposite way. But as it was in the days of Noah. How was it in Noah's day? The flood of judgment came and took the wicked all away, and the righteous were left to inherit the earth. Oh yes, they did, for when the waters receded and Noah and his family stepped out on the earth again, it all belonged to them. There was no one to dispute their claim. The fat of the land was theirs. God had given it all to them. The wicked had been taken away. And yet, man has devised a theology in which it is just the opposite. They claim the righteous are taken away into the sky for a big supper and the wicked are left to rule the earth. Also, the devil is left free to have his own way in the lives of all men on the earth.
Isaiah says: "Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpass. For, behold, the Lord cometh out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity:" Now, the pre-tribulation rapture people say that this scripture proves that God will remove His people from this earth during the tribulation. It proves no such thing, and in fact, it says exactly the opposite. We will be here while the wrath of God is being poured out, but it shall not be poured out upon us, for we shall be hid in Christ. We shall be in an Ark of safety, as Noah was. "As it was in the days of Noah".
Some like to point at Enoch, who was translated that he should not see death, and say that he is a type of those who are raptured before Tribulation. But Enoch did not live during the time that judgment was being poured out on the earth in the form of a flood. Enoch was translated 669 years before the Flood, and never met Noah. In other words, his translation was not for the purpose of helping him escape the flood. Jesus did not say: "As it was in the days of Enoch"...He said, "As it was in the days of NOAH". And Noah went through the flood, protected by the Ark he had prepared and entered into. And when the flood was over, and the wicked had been "taken", he stepped out of the Ark, and inherited the earth. He and his family were the only ones to own the earth now, for everyone else who might have had a deed to a piece of property was gone, along with their heirs. So there was no one left to dispute Noah's claim. He inherited the earth. Read Psalm 37 and see the principle laid down in Scripture.
The "escape" that the Bible teaches is found in I Corinthians 10:13..."God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." God and His faithful people have always been victorious, and our "hiding place" is in Christ. "Your life is hid with Christ in God" (Colossians 3:3). It is the fearful, the faithless, or the wicked, who seek a geographical hiding place. Some want to leave the earth and go somewhere else while some cry for the natural rocks and mountains to hide them. (Rev 6:15) Today, some are seeking a hiding place in some natural place, a farm, a desert, a foreign country, a wilderness area, etc. But it will not work. It is only another form of "self-rapture". You cannot escape from the devil or Antichrist that way. Your protection and safety is only in Christ, and in absolute obedience to the Spirit of God. Whether it be on a farm or in the city, in a wilderness area or in a metropolitan center, the hiding place is the same...in Christ! Hallelujah! Don't criticize those who leave the city, or move out of California, or go to a farm somewhere. Perhaps the Spirit has instructed them to do so, and their safety is in their obedience. And don't criticize those who stay in the city, or refuse to flee from the coastal areas. They may simply be obeying the Spirit also. And this is where their safety lies. Everyone must be led of the Spirit, and not persuaded by someone else that the true doctrine is to "run and hide".
Now it very plainly says, "As it was in the days of Noah". As it was. Not different, not the opposite way. But as it was in the days of Noah. How was it in Noah's day? The flood of judgment came and took the wicked all away, and the righteous were left to inherit the earth. Oh yes, they did, for when the waters receded and Noah and his family stepped out on the earth again, it all belonged to them. There was no one to dispute their claim. The fat of the land was theirs. God had given it all to them. The wicked had been taken away. And yet, man has devised a theology in which it is just the opposite. They claim the righteous are taken away into the sky for a big supper and the wicked are left to rule the earth. Also, the devil is left free to have his own way in the lives of all men on the earth.
Isaiah says: "Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpass. For, behold, the Lord cometh out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity:" Now, the pre-tribulation rapture people say that this scripture proves that God will remove His people from this earth during the tribulation. It proves no such thing, and in fact, it says exactly the opposite. We will be here while the wrath of God is being poured out, but it shall not be poured out upon us, for we shall be hid in Christ. We shall be in an Ark of safety, as Noah was. "As it was in the days of Noah".
Some like to point at Enoch, who was translated that he should not see death, and say that he is a type of those who are raptured before Tribulation. But Enoch did not live during the time that judgment was being poured out on the earth in the form of a flood. Enoch was translated 669 years before the Flood, and never met Noah. In other words, his translation was not for the purpose of helping him escape the flood. Jesus did not say: "As it was in the days of Enoch"...He said, "As it was in the days of NOAH". And Noah went through the flood, protected by the Ark he had prepared and entered into. And when the flood was over, and the wicked had been "taken", he stepped out of the Ark, and inherited the earth. He and his family were the only ones to own the earth now, for everyone else who might have had a deed to a piece of property was gone, along with their heirs. So there was no one left to dispute Noah's claim. He inherited the earth. Read Psalm 37 and see the principle laid down in Scripture.
The "escape" that the Bible teaches is found in I Corinthians 10:13..."God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." God and His faithful people have always been victorious, and our "hiding place" is in Christ. "Your life is hid with Christ in God" (Colossians 3:3). It is the fearful, the faithless, or the wicked, who seek a geographical hiding place. Some want to leave the earth and go somewhere else while some cry for the natural rocks and mountains to hide them. (Rev 6:15) Today, some are seeking a hiding place in some natural place, a farm, a desert, a foreign country, a wilderness area, etc. But it will not work. It is only another form of "self-rapture". You cannot escape from the devil or Antichrist that way. Your protection and safety is only in Christ, and in absolute obedience to the Spirit of God. Whether it be on a farm or in the city, in a wilderness area or in a metropolitan center, the hiding place is the same...in Christ! Hallelujah! Don't criticize those who leave the city, or move out of California, or go to a farm somewhere. Perhaps the Spirit has instructed them to do so, and their safety is in their obedience. And don't criticize those who stay in the city, or refuse to flee from the coastal areas. They may simply be obeying the Spirit also. And this is where their safety lies. Everyone must be led of the Spirit, and not persuaded by someone else that the true doctrine is to "run and hide".
One thing is for sure: since you won't accept scripture, you won't be part of the Bridal company that will be raptured; the tribulation period will be a horrible time for you to endure -- if Jesus tarries beyond your lifetime.
Matthew 25
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
Revelation 12
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
The woman is Israel.
5 And she [Israel] brought forth a man child [the 144 male Jewish virgins], who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Many claim that Jesus is the man child; this is not so. Jesus is already in Heaven. As we study further in Revelation:
Revelation 14
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
One thing is for sure: since you won't accept scripture, you won't be part of the Bridal company that will be raptured; the tribulation period will be a horrible time for you to endure -- if Jesus tarries beyond your lifetime.
Matthew 25
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
I have given ample scripture for everything I have said. Yet YOU keep coming up with the same typical verses.
In Revelation chapter 12, the woman is described as "clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars" (Revelation 12:1). Note the similarity between this description and the description that Joseph gave of his father Jacob (Israel) and his mother and their children (Genesis 37:9-11). The stars refer to the twelve tribes of Israel. So the woman in Revelation 12 is Israel.
Additional evidence is that in Relevation 12:2-5, the passage speaks of the woman being with child and giving birth. While it is true that Mary gave birth to Jesus, it is also true that Jesus, the son of David from the tribe of Judah, came from Israel. In a real sense, Israel gave birth—or brought forth—Christ Jesus. Further evidence for this is in 12:5 where the Scripture says that the woman "gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne." Clearly, this is describing Jesus. Jesus will one day establish His kingdom on earth (Revelation 20:4-6), and He will rule it. This verse also makes reference to Jesus' ascension to heaven 40 days after His resurrection (Acts 1:9-11), speaking of the son "being caught up to God and to His throne."
'The Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a SHOUT, with the VOICE of an Archangel and the TRUMP of God.'[SIZE=3] I Thess. 4:16. Nothing quiet about that, is there?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Oh, more scripture, Prov 10:30. What's it say? "Righious will NEVER be removed."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]My final point is this. NO WHERE did Jesus say, "Believe on the rapture and you will be saved." So salvation has NOTHING to do with a rapture. There is a second coming, not a third. Is Jesus all He said He is? YES, no doubt. Theology is this: It's a man in a dark room with no light looking for a black cat that isn't there, and he finds it. [/SIZE]
There is no point in this...again, I have yet to see anyone prove to me that there is a difference in one system over another..
Where is the "Deadly Folly"?
So one person has the events of the Last Days in a different order than another person?
So What?
None of the different End Times systems calls for people to do something right now that is in any different.
None of the systems can be changed by the people who support it.
If the Pre-trib system is correct, it doesnt matter because no one can do anything to change anything.
Same if the post- or mid-Trib position is correct...
So the whole topic is a moot point as far as I can see.
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