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A bad translation of even one Biblical verse can wreak havoc- and I mean HAVOC - for generations and for millions upon millions of Christians. Witness:
Belief in the pre-trib rapture is rampant in the Christian community. This heresy came about, it can be legitimately argued, not just by good men who were mistaken in their interpretation of scripture, but also by clever, conniving wolves who deliberately reworded holy scripture to sell a bill of goods to gullible children of God, duping them into believing a feel-good lie that they would be spared the "great tribulation" and fly off in the clouds to join the Lamb for a heavenly feast while the rest of humanity got stamped with a 666 or lost their head for refusing. Here is the original verse from King James in its proper wording:
"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominationshe shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." Daniel 9:27
It is so blatantly obvious to anyone reading this that the "he" is referencing Jesus, who put an end to the daily sacrifice of animals in the temple in the middle Daniel's 70th week, or 3 1/2 years after Jesus started His earthly ministry, thus confirming the covenant God made to Adam and to Abraham that He would send a saviour to redeem mankind from their sin.
Now notice how the spawn of satan worked their evil translation to make the verse ever so subtly look like the original text, yet causing it to take on a whole new meaning that attributes Jesus' work to the "Antichrist" during a mythical 7-year tribulation:
New International Version
"He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."
"And for the overspreading of abominations he will make it desolate" is turned into "on a wing (section) of the temple he shall set up (errect) an abomination (statue of himself that everyone must worship) and this will cause desolation (persecution by beheading). So plural "abominations" is deviously morphed into singular "abomination" and thus you get the doctrine of an "Abomination of Desolation"occurring halfway through a mythical 7-year tribulation. And where they come up with "on the wing of the temple" I have no idea, except that they obviously needed some kind of wording to make it look like the abomination would take place in a temple that would be rebuilt at the start of this mythical 7-year tribulation.
From this one badly-mistranslated verse has sprung a whole cult of Christians who hold to a 7-year tribulation with a fictional Antichrist who will rule the world for 7 years, who, in the middle of it, will march into a newly-constructed temple (a temple which will never get built) set up a mechanical monster that can perform supernatural acts and then demand that everyone worship this animatron and accept a 666 or be beheaded. Just try to picture one man running the WHOLE world (laugh) and demanding 7+ BILLION people to fall down to this image or be beheaded (laugh even louder). In your wildest imagination can you drum up the image of an army even as large as 100 million soldiers swearing allegiance to one man and actually threatening 7 BILLION individuals with death if they don't obey him??? I cannot! I mean this is nonsense that you find only in a bad pulp fiction novel, and yet there have been 12 of them called "Left Behind" and 20 million+ Christians have gobbled up this gobbledigook like it was solid Biblical doctrine. Satan is having a field day, I'm sure - while God weeps that His children have so readily sold out to a feel-good sham of something called the pre-tribulation rapture.
Hate to break it to you, but the doctrine of the pre-trib rapture has been around a LONG TIME before the NIV was translated.
You might want to just come right out and admit that this thread is a KJVO rant.
But really, give me one verse that disproves the pre-tribulation truth.
That's simple. In His OD, Jesus didn't mention one thing that even resembled the rapture until 24:30-31 when He said "IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days" If Jesus didn't find the "rapture" important enough to mention, then how do we give such credence to something He didn't even bother to acknowledge. "Behold I have told you ALL things beforehand"
But Jesus DID tell us about a gathering of the Saints AFTER the tribulation. It doesn't get any clearer than that. That is when Paul's 1 Thess. & Corinthians "rapture" verses occur: immediately after the tribulation of those days, when Jesus raises the dead and then the living Christians join them from the four corners of the earth.
More on how the infamous Daniel 9:27 grew from its original wording which predicted Jesus' death halfway through the 70th week of Daniel to an utter bas*ardization of it in later Biblical translations:
original phrase from KJV: "and for the overspreading of abominationS he shall make it desolate"
But that's not good enough. They decide they don't like the word "overspreading" so they think, "Hmmm, what is another word that gives a different slant to the meaning of overspreading? Well, an eagle "spreads its wings". Let's do this. Let's substitute wing for overspreading."
So then we get:
"and on the wing of abominations shall come ONE" who makes desolate".
Notice too how "he" (Jesus) is cleverly replaced by "one", thus subtracting from Jesus' personality and adding to a mysterious "someone" whom we do not know, but suspect it might be...oh, possibly....Antichrist???"
But that's still not good enough to attribute the work of Jesus to the work of satan. So they start thinking again. "How do we convey the idea that the beast will walk into the temple and set up an image of himself the way Dispensationalists argue he will. I've got it. Instead of "on a wing of abominations" let's make it "on a wing of the TEMPLE." That way, people will picture a section of the newly-built temple being an ideal place to set a statue which we'll call the "abomination of desolation". But the original is plural, "ABOMINATIONS". Not a problem. We'll knock off the "s" and make it singular. No one will notice. And then we can imply that Daniel was predicting not many detestable acts (abominations), but actually an object of worship (abomination of desolation) and then we can link it with Jesus' words about "When therefore you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel..." (which, incidentally, is a reference to Daniel 11:31, not Daniel 9:27) and Revelation. Thus the final product:
"And on a wing of the temple shall come one who makes it desolate.."
These guys are devilishly ingenious. No one really paid attention. Hal, Jack, Grant, JR and a bunch of other prominent prophecy "experts" jumped on the bandwagon. It was a new, exciting doctrine. It certainly made for more interesting conversation...a mysterious stranger with strange supernatural powers who would come on the world scene suddenly, take the reins of power with his charismatic charm and then, by subterfuge, force the world to bow down, worship him and be branded with 666. Best of all, it was commercial. I mean, this is the stuff that bestsellers and blockbuster films are made out of....well, you fill in the rest. I think I've made my point. Just look carefully at how Daniel 9:27 gradually changed over the years to accommodate an agenda.
Last edited by thrillobyte; 06-02-2009 at 10:39 AM..
Reason: grammar, typos, and additions
More on how the infamous Daniel 9:27 grew from its original wording which predicted Jesus' death halfway through the 70th week of Daniel to an utter bas*ardization of it in later Biblical translations:
original phrase from KJV: "and for the overspreading of abominationS he shall make it desolate"
But that's not good enough. They decide they don't like the word "overspreading" so they think, "Hmmm, what is another word that gives a different slant to the meaning of overspreading? Well, an eagle "spreads its wings". Let's do this. Let's substitute wing for overspreading."
So then we get:
"and on the wing of abominations shall come ONE" who makes desolate".
Notice too how "he" (Jesus) is cleverly replaced by "one", thus subtracting from Jesus' personality and adding to a mysterious "someone" whom we do not know, but suspect it might be...oh, possibly....Antichrist???"
But that's still not good enough to attribute the work of Jesus to the work of satan. So they start thinking again. "How do we convey the idea that the beast will walk into the temple and set up an image of himself the way Dispensationalists argue he will. I've got it. Instead of "on a wing of abominations" let's make it "on a wing of the TEMPLE." That way, people will picture a section of the newly-built temple being an ideal place to set a statue which we'll call the "abomination of desolation". But the original is plural, "ABOMINATIONS". Not a problem. We'll knock off the "s" and make it singular. No one will notice. And then we can imply that Daniel was predicting not many detestable acts (abominations), but actually an object of worship (abomination of desolation) and then we can link it with Jesus' words about "When therefore you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel..." (which, incidentally, is a reference to Daniel 11:31, not Daniel 9:27) and Revelation. Thus the final product:
"And on a wing of the temple shall come one who makes it desolate.."
These guys are devilishly ingenious. No one really paid attention. Hal, Jack, Grant, JR and a bunch of other prominent prophecy "experts" jumped on the bandwagon. It was a new, exciting doctrine. It certainly made for more interesting conversation...a mysterious stranger with strange supernatural powers who would come on the world scene suddenly, take the reins of power with his charismatic charm and then, by subterfuge, force the world to bow down, worship him and be branded with 666. Best of all, it was commercial. I mean, this is the stuff that bestsellers and blockbuster films are made out of....well, you fill in the rest. I think I've made my point. Just look carefully at how Daniel 9:27 gradually changed over the years to accommodate an agenda.
You should probably give credit to Donald Waite...
How is believing or not believing a trib heresy especially in a confusing book as Revelations?
Greetings, Fundamentalist: I do not believe the Revelation is confusing WHEN the events it describes are placed in their proper historical setting--the first-century, pre-A. D. 70 time frame!
Revelation 1:1, 3 and 22:6, 10 clearly establish that John was shown those things which were in his day to SHORTLY take place because the time for their fulfillment was THEN near. This awesome book becomes "confusing" only when people thrust it well outside of its intended time frame and launch into ridiculous and fanciful speculations.
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No Rapture
