WOW! I just had an epiphany about hell being eternal (paradise, punishment)
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THIS IS NOT A USELESS DEBATE IF HELL IS ETERNAL OR NOT, THIS ABOUT COULD LOVING CHRISTIANS COME UP WITH AN ETERNAL HELL ON THEIR OWN?
....and I owe it all to a universalist. (I am on the verge of tears here)
(Continue from another thread)
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Originally Posted by .sparrow.
I cannot think of anything more demon-like than the doctrine of eternal torment. Eternal torture.
Have you all ever watched The Green Mile? Do you remember the scene when Percy purposely neglects to wet the sponge when Delacroix is executed? And what happened to Delacroix? This is basically what some say God will DO to some of His beloved children whom HE created. Except Delacroix was far more fortunate, he eventually died after only a few minutes.
That, my friends.... is the the doctrines of DEMONS. It is the worst, most sickest, vilest, disgusting, horrible thing that mankind could imagine. and they put it on our Loving Father. They project that picture, that horrific, demonic picture onto our Loving Father. The creator of the universe. The one who holds the earth in His hand, yet notes the death of a lowly sparrow.
But... this too shall pass. And all shall come to the knowledge of the truth.
Every knee SHALL Bow. Thank God. Finally, one day... all will be able to see the true HEART of God and all darkness will be cast away.
Hmmmmmm....that is absolutely interesting isn't it, "makind imagined". WOW! Thank you my friend that statement you made proves this doctrine can ONLY be from God because mankind could not, would not, want to imagine an everlasting hell, IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE for man to come up with such a doctrine because it would be unfathomable for mankind not to mention ridiculous from our fallen understanding of the God we harmonize in our own heads. If the bible was actually written by mankind without inspiration from the Holy Spirit then there would be no hell doctrine, we would have changed it, gotten rid of it.
I personally do not understand nor like the eternal hell doctrine but who am I to question or judge God because I see it in scripture and I trust God is good and does everything for my good and His glory and if I am like this then there are many like me who do not comprehend the concept of an eternal hell either and would want it struck and never to be uttered again from our holy, loving letter; the bible.
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 06-07-2009 at 10:24 AM..
Also, you are wrong.
Mankind DOES imagine hell because mankind was subject to vanity.
It is mankind's lack of love that allows him to imagine this demonic place where God will TORTURE mankind for all eternity.
Mankinds EGO.
Mankinds BLOODLUST for his enemies.
MANKINDS need to be ABOVE others.
MANKINDS desire to be set apart and that means EXCLUDING others.
You fail to realize that Mankind is in a FALLEN state.
Mankind wants there to be nothing more than to enjoy some paradise while his fellow man is tortured.
VAIN IMAGININGS of MANKIND.
Some "itchy ears" as you all love to say, LOVE it.
EMBRACE IT. They are "special".
And it means they don't have to think too much about loving their enemies.
It's sad when people look the other way when presented with "eternal torture" and fail to seek out the matter. When they cling to it, instead of seeking it out. Instead of being repulsed at the mere thought, they cling to it as if it is something that has the light of God. When it so obviously has nothing but darkness. No light of God whatsoever.
Whatsoever.
Then you have those who just fear too much. FEAR to question. So they put it on a back burner (pardon the pun) in their mind, and just try to ignore it. Perfect love casts out ALL Fear.
Do any of you FEAR your loved ones going to this eternal torture place?
Do you? If not... what about your neighbor down the street?
Do you FEAR?
YES? Then the love of God is not being enlarged in your heart. For PERFECT LOVE casts out ALL fear.
NO? You don't fear?? Then the love of God is not being enlarged in your heart. For you shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Hmmmmmm....that is absolutely interesting isn't it, "makind imagined". WOW! Thank you my friend that statement you made proves this doctrine can ONLY be from God because mankind could not, would not, want to imagine an everlasting hell, IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE for man to come up with such a doctrine because it would be unfathomable for mankind not to mention ridiculous from our fallen understanding of the God we harmonize in our own heads. If the bible was actually written by mankind without inspiration from the Holy Spirit then there would be no hell doctrine, we would have changed it, gotten rid of it.
I personally do not understand nor like the eternal hell doctrine but who am I to question or judge God because I see it in scripture and I trust God is good and does everything for my good and His glory and if I am like this then there are many like me who do not comprehend the concept of an eternal hell either and would want it struck and never to be uttered again from our holy, loving letter; the bible.
In addition to what .sparrow has shared
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Hi, why don't you agree with this, Fundy, if you believe that it is from God? Wouldn't you embrace it... Why would you never want it uttered again from our holy loving letter, the Bible? It doesn't reflect love, does it? We know that God is love, agape. Have a blessed day.
Fundy
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How can we in our fallen state just like many can't embrace any kind of existence of hell, temporary or eternal or those that can't embrace a God that kills children
Shana
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Does the Spirit of God dwell in you, Fundy? His Holy Spirit of love? We know that God kills and He makes alive again and I know that He is good, not evil. I know that experiencing hell is necessary to bring us to our knees. Experiencing hell is not bad. It has a higher purpose. How many of us had to hit rock bottom before we saw our need for the Lord? But everlasting, neverending hell/torment is not good. It is not scriptural either. God bless.
Mankind DOES imagine hell because mankind was subject to vanity.
It is mankind's lack of love that allows him to imagine this demonic place where God will TORTURE mankind for all eternity.
Mankinds EGO.
Mankinds BLOODLUST for his enemies.
MANKINDS need to be ABOVE others.
MANKINDS desire to be set apart and that means EXCLUDING others.
You fail to realize that Mankind is in a FALLEN state.
Mankind wants there to be nothing more than to enjoy some paradise while his fellow man is tortured.
What you said in bold makes no sense. I don't even think you know what you are saying, Fundamentalist. I really don't.
It's very simple, that mankind alone, Christians who talk about God's love, preached about God's love who want to please God in everyway and see everyone saved could ever come up with such a doctrine unless they see it in the bible
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You say you do not understand nor agree with the eternal hell doctrine??
Have you asked God about it, Fundamentalist? Have you asked God about it? now, let's talk about what you said... You will not QUESTION God?
So you blindly follow? Study to show yourselves approved, Fundamentalist. QUESTIONING is the starting point of Studying.
No why would I? I may not fully comprehend but I accept it. I and neither were you given the gift of interpretation therefore I let other men of God who were given these gifts to interpret and teach, I listen and if it falls in line with scripture through spiritual discernment which the Holy Spirit has graciously granted me this gift then I BELIEVE.
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also you said "I see it in scripture". That sentence screams out to me, one thing... GOD did not BRING you to it. You sidestepped God. All you did was read something in a book. And you did not QUESTION. Therefore you know not what you speak of. So you really should stop DEFENDING ideas that you have not studied and showed yourself approved.
You got that from scripture so are you not contradiction yourself by quoting scripture when you tell me, "all I see is what I read in a book"? His word, this is how He talks to us, through His word, you may call it a book. I call it a love letter.
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QUESTION GOD. YES. This is what we are supposed to do.
QUESTION. SEEK HIM.
SEEK and ye shall find.
No I don't believe we should question God's goodness or sovereignty 1) it is illogical because apart from God, we don't know what is good? To question God in this manner is to set yourself apart from him
and 2) (Romans 9:19-21) 19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 06-07-2009 at 10:34 AM..
The onus is on you. You have to prove that such loving Christians could up with an eternal doctrine of hell by themselves, as you said,
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"It is the worst, most sickest, vilest, disgusting, horrible thing that mankind could imagine"
Through this statement you have just judged and condemned many of your brothers and sisters because to come up with such or believe in such a doctrine then we could not be God. That is a self righteous statement you just made. You are being very judgmental and not in a scriptural way I might add because are you more loving than all the Christians who believe in an eternal hell?
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 06-07-2009 at 10:23 AM..
It's very simple, that mankind alone, Christians who talk about God's love, preached about God's love who want to please God in everyway and see everyone saved could ever come up with such a doctrine unless they see it in the bible
Fundy, how do you know that Christians came up with it? From what I understand it has pagan roots and remember that Christians are fallible. You yourself mentioned the fallen state. Ever read the writings of Jonathan Edwards for example, or those who enjoyed the thought of God tormenting others for all of eternity? God bless.
"Whither shall I go from Your spirit, or whither shall I flee from our presence? If I ascend up into heaven, You are there; if I make my bed in sh@'owl behold You are there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; even there shall Your hand lead me, and Your right hand shall hold me. If I say, surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me. Yes, the darkness hides not from You; but the night shines as the day; the darkness and the light are both alike to You."
Nothing shall separate the groaning ktisis/ creation from His love!
Not tribulation or distress!~
Not Persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword!~
Not death!~
Not life!~
Not angels!~
Not principalities, nor powers!~
Not height nor depth!~
Not any creature.....nothing created!~
"NOTHING shall be able to separate us from the love of God revealed to us by/in/through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
Hell is forever.
The souls in hell never have a next day...
Nothing new happens in Hell.
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