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Old 06-07-2009, 03:49 PM
 
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The Pharisee and the Tax Collector

Let me lay out for you the story, Jesus' parable, of the Pharisee and the tax collector. Jesus says, "Two men went up to the temple to pray. One of them was a Pharisee. The other was a tax collector."

You must remember that a tax collector was a crook.

He was a person who was a Jew but he worked for the Roman government. He had a franchise, an area in which he was entitled to collect taxes. He was told by the Romans what he owed them. Anything else he made over and above that was his to pocket. The tax collectors were despised as turncoats and so on. So Jesus has set you up. He has sent in the Pharisee who was one of the most respectable people in Judaism of his time and He has sent into the temple with him this tax collector who is a mafia-style enforcer, who is a bad apple.

The Pharisee

The Pharisee stands by himself and he prays and he says, "God, I thank you that I am not like other people. I am not a thief. I am not a rogue. I am not an adulterer. I am certainly not like this tax collector over here. I fast twice a week. I give away a tenth of my income."

That is his speech. He goes on interminably like that. Then the tax collector says (he won't look up to the heaven; he looks at his shoe tips), "God be merciful to me a sinner."

Then Jesus says, "I tell you this man (the tax collector) went to his house justified rather than the other for all who exalt themselves will be humbled and all who humble themselves will be exalted."

That is the story.

Like all of Jesus' parables, it should carry a warning which is "this will be hazardous to all your previous opinions about how religion works and how God works." Jesus' parables are designed to outrage the hearers and to shock and to show how God has stood almost all of our values on their heads.

What this parable is about is not, as it seems to say at the end, the virtue of humility. The Pharisee's problem is not that he is showing off. It is that he really believes that his stack of good deeds is enough to save the world. And he believes it is enough if only everyone else would do what he does -- that is enough to save the whole world.

What God really says in Christ is that human goodness isn't good enough to do this trick. Human goodness cannot reconcile the world. Basically if the world could have been reconciled by good advice from God, to which human goodness would respond, the world's problems would have been solved ten minutes after Moses got down to the bottom of the mountain with the commandments. Everyone would have read the commandments and said, "Oh, yes, of course," and the problem would have been over. The trouble with the commandments is the commandments are fine, but no one has ever paid much attention to them.

Continued HERE (http://www.csec.org/csec/sermon/Capon_3705.htm - broken link)
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Old 06-07-2009, 04:15 PM
 
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Indeed this demonstrates how Christ viewed the religious of his time who are the same now. Notice how it is never said that the tax collector stopped being a tax collector? But he is justified by his recognizing his own sin and in humility hoping for forgiveness for his lifestyle. While The pharisee feels justified by his lifestyle. Its the very same in the Christian community today.
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Old 06-07-2009, 04:30 PM
 
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A truly righteous person does not esteem one's own self, but such a person does warn the people. Look at John The Baptist. God does not endorse sin, nor will He ever. The devil, his angels, Adam & Eve are the examples -- and so are those whose carcasses whithered away in the wilderness during their provocation of the Lord.
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Old 06-07-2009, 05:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
A truly righteous person does not esteem one's own self, but such a person does warn the people. Look at John The Baptist. God does not endorse sin, nor will He ever. The devil, his angels, Adam & Eve are the examples -- and so are those whose carcasses whithered away in the wilderness during their provocation of the Lord.

Then are you saying that you are a truly righteous person, because i heard it takes one to know one? Do you know anyone who is truly righteous, anyone other than Jesus?
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Old 06-07-2009, 05:36 PM
 
Location: East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
A truly righteous person does not esteem one's own self, but such a person does warn the people. Look at John The Baptist. God does not endorse sin, nor will He ever. The devil, his angels, Adam & Eve are the examples -- and so are those whose carcasses whithered away in the wilderness during their provocation of the Lord.
Another observation from reading this forum, those who advocate Eternal torment always exalt sin over the grace and the love of God and at the same time make demands on the sinner they have never done or kept themselves.
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Old 06-07-2009, 05:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Another observation from reading this forum, those who advocate Eternal torment always exalt sin over the grace and the love of God and at the same time make demands on the sinner they have never done or kept themselves.
That deserves to be repeated.

Those who advocate Eternal torment ALWAYS exalt SIN over the GRACE and LOVE of GOD.
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Old 06-07-2009, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Idaho
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Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Another observation from reading this forum, those who advocate Eternal torment always exalt sin over the grace and the love of God and at the same time make demands on the sinner they have never done or kept themselves.
How so? and who advocates eternal torment the idea I think is to avoid it!
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Old 06-07-2009, 05:54 PM
 
Location: East Coast
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Originally Posted by Thirdparty View Post
How so? and who advocates eternal torment the idea I think is to avoid it!
Ok the one who supports and promotes the idea of eternal torment. It's just an observation of mine from reading this forum .
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Old 06-07-2009, 06:51 PM
 
37,493 posts, read 25,224,572 times
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The majority of advocates of fear and eternal punishment exhibit a spiritual "state of mind" that is antithetical to that espoused by Jesus. It is completely self-centered and focused on what will happen to US . . . what will WE get or how will WE be punished. How can any adult relate to that as an ideal and goal of God. Why would God want to produce such self-centered puppets . . . bleating praises in hopes of reward and avoidance of punishment . . . and engendering fear (the enemy of love) in others. How can that possibly be reconciled with "love God and each other?" . . . or "whatsoever you do to these the least of my creatures?"
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Old 06-07-2009, 06:53 PM
 
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Not only do they exalt the power of sin over the mercy seat, they exalt the power of Man's will over Gods will.

"Gods will be done, so long as it doesn't conflict with mans free will."
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