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Gosh, I can't imagine why your pastor is having any sort of problem with you.....being that you're God, and all.
Maybe the thing for *you* to do, instead of undercutting your pastor, is to start your own church.....?
Just a thought........
What scripture does one have to bring forth this truth, one is seeing, that one can share showing that one may not be walking according to God's will in her life?
Did God give you a word of knowledge,discernment? God always lead us to share with another through His word. We help through the Spirit of truth, by sharing the word so our brothers and sisters can be delivered from the error of their way?
It would be wonderful to hear it! We need each other!! Encouraging one another.....in love!!
since you typed the word "church" with a lower case "c", I take it that you mean the "building" in which I now go to on Sundays and Wednesdays to gather with sisters and brothers to hear a pastor teach...am I correct in my assumption?
well u begin with '....if I have to hear this one more time....'
What scripture does one have to bring forth this truth, one is seeing, that one can share showing that one may not be walking according to God's will in her life?
Did God give you a word of knowledge,discernment? God always lead us to share with another through His word. We help through the Spirit of truth, by sharing the word so our brothers and sisters can be delivered from the error of their way?
It would be wonderful to hear it! We need each other!! Encouraging one another.....in love!!
Blessings
Saying that her pastor is teaching "lies from the pit of hell" isn't exactly "encouraging one another in love" in my book. In her first post, she said,
Quote:
he needed to listen to the Holy Spirit, and receive the truth in his heart, and begin teaching it to his flock...I said, "Take salvation for example; people are taught that once they ask Jesus to come into their heart, they are taught; and they believe, that they are saved, right then and there, but this is a lie from the pit of hell
She is associating her pastor with Satan, so I can understand why he called her into his office, and said the things he did. And how do you know he isn't listening to the Holy Spirit? He is the pastor of your church, do you think he is unqualified? Maybe you should find a church more in line with your views, instead of bad-mouthing the pastor......
Quote:
The woman who protested so vehemetly was the one who told pastor John what I had said
Why shouldn't she have told the pastor what you said?
Quote:
...and of course she added her own spin of drama to it so that it would sound as though I traumatized them all terribly.
Maybe they don't want to hear that about their pastor.
Sorry, dear, but you need to check yourself! You sound extremely self-righteous and arrogant. Being "right" doesn't produce righteousness. People can have different opinions about what a certain passage of scripture teaches. That does not make you any closer to the Lord, than your pastor. Lots of Christians disagree about certain things in scripture.....saying that he is teaching "lies from the pit of hell," is an outrageous, slanderous statement, and I don't blame him one bit, for calling you into his office. You cannot say that you haven't been warned.
Sundance; Sorry, dear, but you need to check yourself! You sound extremely self-righteous and arrogant. Being "right" doesn't produce righteousness. You're not showing any fruit of the spirit.
[/quote]
Hmmm fruit of the Spirit?
Do you think the person who said this had the "fruit of the Spirit":
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter yourselves, nor allow those who would enter to go in."
"You blind men..."
"...straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!"
"...full of extortion and rapacity."
"...you appear righteous to men but within you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity."
"You serpents, you brood of vipers..."
"Blind guides..."
"...how are you to escape being sentenced to hell."
HK
Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Do you think the person who said this had the "fruit of the Spirit":
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter yourselves, nor allow those who would enter to go in."
"You blind men..."
"...straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!"
"...full of extortion and rapacity."
"...you appear righteous to men but within you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity."
"You serpents, you brood of vipers..."
"Blind guides..."
"...how are you to escape being sentenced to hell."
HK
Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:[/quote]
Verna has come forward and has shared her situation with us and we should not resort to improper personal attacks against her. She is a member of the body of our LORD and ought to be treated as such. What if the rest of us shared a sensitive personal issue. Would we want out right insults or would we want helpful advice and prayers?
I'm not yet perfect, and likely few if any in the Church are perfect just yet. But we should help each other become perfect.
The struggle happening at her Church happens throughout the world every day. The problem is a failure on the part of Church leaders to understand the scriptures. They know some things about the Bible, but not enough. And some who truely know a lot about the Bible are timid to standout and work openly for good change.
I commend Verna for shareing her situaion with us. Let's pray for her and the pastor and all who fellowship there with them.
Verna has come forward and has shared her situation with us and we should not resort to improper personal attacks against her. She is a member of the body of our LORD and ought to be treated as such. What if the rest of us shared a sensitive personal issue. Would we want out right insults or would we want helpful advice and prayers?
I'm not yet perfect, and likely few if any in the Church are perfect just yet. But we should help each other become perfect.
The struggle happening at her Church happens throughout the world every day. The problem is a failure on the part of Church leaders to understand the scriptures. They know some things about the Bible, but not enough. And some who truely know a lot about the Bible are timid to standout and work openly for good change.
I commend Verna for shareing her situaion with us. Let's pray for her and the pastor and all who fellowship there with them.
I didn't attack her, although I notice she has no problem attacking her own pastor by insinuating that there is something missing in his walk with the Lord.
If she feels he has erred in his doctrine, she should go to him and discuss it, instead of badmouthing him, and making insinuations, in front of other church members.
She seems to feel that she is closer to the Lord, and more correct in her interpretation of scripture, than her pastor - that's why I suggested her starting her own church. She obviously is uncomfortable and disagrees with what her pastor is teaching - so why stay?
Sundance;9353757
If she feels he has erred in his doctrine, she should go to him and discuss it, instead of badmouthing him, and making insinuations, in front of other church members.
If you would read her OP again you will see that she did talk to the Pastor repeatedly.
Do you think people who declare themselves to be Pastors are immune from the following instructions of Jesus about problems in a church?
Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
I didn't attack her, although I notice she has no problem attacking her own pastor by insinuating that there is something missing in his walk with the Lord.
If she feels he has erred in his doctrine, she should go to him and discuss it, instead of badmouthing him, and making insinuations, in front of other church members.
She seems to feel that she is closer to the Lord, and more correct in her interpretation of scripture, than her pastor - that's why I suggested her starting her own church. She obviously is uncomfortable and disagrees with what her pastor is teaching - so why stay?
I agree there are problems in this situation at the church group we are discussing. I would respectfully disagree that our sister should go and start her own Church. Believe me, that would only compound the problems for every one involved.
One big problem at that Church is the same problem at most Churches today. Leadership is hardheaded, think they are at the fort surrounded by 10,000 indians, and they are the only one who can pull the congregation through. It is a very pathetic situation worldwide.
I do not agree with all of Vernas' methods. But leadership problems are to blame here. Church leaders have become fragmented and are giving in to pressure from secular society for changes which are wrong. A major revival/awakening is needed.
I do not agree with Verna when she says that no one is saved until they are in Heaven. That is rediculous. But she does make a good point about obeying the LORD. These are general statements and deserve further clarification, but not today.
If you would read her OP again you will see that she did talk to the Pastor repeatedly.
I did read her OP. Part of it reads:
Quote:
This past Sunday, just before church began, my pastor told me he wanted to see me after church. I knew right away, why.
The preceeding Sunday, me and 5 of my "sisters," gathered after church and had a wonderful afternoon swimming and eating and playing Dominos...after a while the subject of my pastor came up...they were all praising his character...and stating how good he is...how good he
preaches...etc...etc. ( None of them knew/know that I have met privately 3 times with him, and have given him a file of studies I've completed on Salvation...obeying the 10 commandments...and Blessings contengent upon obedience.
As they were all talking, I was thinking of what him and I are going through together..and without realizing it, they were wondering why I wasn't "chiming" in, then I noticed they were all looking at me for my response. So, I responded. I told them that Modern Christianity today does not teach the whole truth...that I didn't necessarily blame pastor John, because he was teaching what was taught to him, but he needed to listen to the Holy Spirit, and receive the truth in his heart, and begin teaching it to his flock...I said, "Take salvation for example; people are taught that once they ask Jesus to come into their heart, they are taught; and they believe, that they are saved, right then and there, but this is a lie from the pit of hell, and the truth is that no one is saved until they are standing in front of Jesus, our King and Righteous Judge, and He judges us so...IF we in fact have lived a life of obedience to his commandments...and to His perfect will for us, leaving the old, sinful-nature behind, and receiving our new nature...to be holy, as Christ is holy, and to be found blameless as we stand before Him."...one protested ...another stated, "That's your truth Verna, nobody else's."...the other three were listening very attentively. The subject was dropped like a hot potatoe.
The woman who protested so vehemetly was the one who told pastor John what I had said...and of course she added her own spin of drama to it so that it would sound as though I traumatized them all terribly.
I know she spoke to him several times. What is your point, that he didn't fall into line with her way of thinking, and so something is "wrong" with him?
The fact that she spoke with him several times doesn't give her justification to badmouth him in front of others.
Although, in reading her post, it sounds like her pastor isn't the only one she has a problem with:
Quote:
The preceeding Sunday, me and 5 of my "sisters," gathered after church and had a wonderful afternoon swimming and eating and playing Dominos...
"Sisters" in quotes because, since they support the pastor, they cannot possibly be saved - cannot be "true" Christians?
Quote:
Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
How has her pastor "trespassed," or sinned against her? I must have missed that part - unless you feel that the Pastor should not follow the leading of the Holy Spirit, and follow Verna, instead?
Last edited by Sundance; 06-18-2009 at 12:58 PM..
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Amen!!
