U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-13-2010, 01:24 PM
 
30 posts, read 3,389 times
Reputation: 20

Advertisements

salvation means to be free from sin..
if we sin we are not free.
It is possible at any time to be deceived and fall back onto the path of distruction, this is why it is soo important to keep your eyes on god and not to be distracted by the flashy things of the world.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-25-2010, 01:21 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
811 posts, read 311,676 times
Reputation: 95
If a person genuinely believes that Christ is the Son of God, and truly repents of his past sins, he is given the gift of the Holy Ghost (which God gives to them that OBEY Him-Acts 5:32.) Then, and only then is he able to lay down his own will to do the will of his Father in Heaven. He becomes sealed unto the day of redemption by the Holy Spirit (Eph. 4:30,) and no man is able to pluck him out of the hands of Christ or His Father (John 10:28-29.) Heb. 10:36 says: “For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.”
But I am convinced that some who have been partakers of the Holy Ghost, blaspheme that Holy Spirit by turning aside and committing that unpardonable sin of willfully and maliciously doing things they know to be wrong and lose the protection that has been given them by our loving Saviour and His Father. I believe Judas was one who had been given the power to cast out devils, and committed that terrible Apostasy in betraying our Saviour.
We can hope that there are few that commit apostasy, but I believe it behooves us all to walk that straight and narrow path once we have received that Holy Spirit. St. Paul said very clearly, “If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His” – Rom. 8:9.)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2010, 01:37 PM
 
42 posts, read 23,167 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd View Post
1. If salvation can be lost, this requires a complete reversal of regeneration. In other words, this means that the person born again must become unborn again. Also, if that person repents, then that person must become born again again. Therefore, can a persoN also be born again, again and again? Where does it end? Is regeneration not permanent?

2. If our salvation can be lost, ETERNAL LIFE cannot be eternal life. It could only be temporary hope for eternal life that couldn't become eternal life until after we die. As long as we are still on Earth, how can we call ETERNAL what can be lost? 1 John 5:13 says that the life we have is eternal, not possibly or potentially eternal or to be determined by whetever we manage to keep or lose it. It says we can KNOW that we have eternal life. Thus, how can we know that ouf our salvation isn't secure?

3. Another point to consider is if we can lose our salvation, we can also keep it by abstaining from whatever it takes to lose it---fornication, homosexuality, adultery, drunkardness etc. When you think about it, it makes it at least some what dependent on our own merits instead of our dependence on the sacrifice Jesus made for all of us. Also, this is in sync with the Scripture's teaching that salvation is a miraculous work of God, DEPENDENT ON HIM, NOT US. FOR IT IS BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED, THROUGH FAITH AND THIS NOT FROM YOURSELVES, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD NOT BY WORKS, SO THAT NO ONE CAN BOAST. God wants no one to boast about how they got into heaven,and that is why salvation is offered completely by Him and by Him alone through his Son.

I could just imagine people saying when they got to heaven, how I did this, and did that to get into heaven, and questioning others about what they did to get there, and if the other person didn't do enough good deeds then it would probably be an issue for those persons would would think it wasn't fair that some christians got into heaven by doing lesser deeds or works than them, which God never intended in the first place.

4. These are just some questions for you to ponder. If we can lose our salvation, how can we lose it? How can we keep it? What does our answer say about the nature of salvation and who it depends on? Is salvation a 50/50 proposition? Is it 10% us and 90% God? 90% God and 10% us? We earn rewards by our work for God through our faith in Jesus Christ as a result of becoming a new creation/creature in Christ, done in TOTAL dependence on Him, but salvation is not earned; it's not a reward. IT'S A GIFT OF GOD, EARNED ONLY BY CHRIST, NOT US.
There's no such thing as losing your salvation. First, you need to know what you're being saved from and most people have no idea what that is.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2010, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,249 posts, read 11,635,808 times
Reputation: 3587
Jesus Christ is your Saviour and your "heavenly father". The only way you can lose your salvation is to reject the Lord Jesus Christ. Once you are saved, you are saved and assured of your place eternal with God.
But that does not mean you will not be punished for your sins if they are not amended and forgiven and remorse shown. You will be. But the punishment will not be the loss of salvation but rather "in house" punishment that you will be given when you reach Heaven. Just like your earth father, when you trespass, he does not banish you from his home but he still may punish you.
The Bible speaks of this under the 5 Crowns in Heaven. It will not be so much "punishment" but the loss of your crowns and the heavenly things that go with them. Sort of like getting "on the team" but having to sit out all the games.
http://www.ffruits.org/firstfruits02/fivecrowns.html
Many people may be happy with merely entering Heavens door but I want to sit next to Jesus and hear Him say I was a good servant.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2010, 02:49 PM
 
5,657 posts, read 2,872,169 times
Reputation: 441
A way to understand salvation is to NOT think of yourself as being saved but consider that only ONE person (Christ) was saved and that we have to become members of His Body that become saved as a part of Him. So unless were a member of His Body we are unsaved.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2010, 02:59 PM
 
5,657 posts, read 2,872,169 times
Reputation: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert M Prince View Post
If a person genuinely believes that Christ is the Son of God, and truly repents of his past sins, he is given the gift of the Holy Ghost (which God gives to them that OBEY Him-Acts 5:32.) Then, and only then is he able to lay down his own will to do the will of his Father in Heaven. He becomes sealed unto the day of redemption by the Holy Spirit (Eph. 4:30,) and no man is able to pluck him out of the hands of Christ or His Father (John 10:28-29.) Heb. 10:36 says: “For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.”
But I am convinced that some who have been partakers of the Holy Ghost, blaspheme that Holy Spirit by turning aside and committing that unpardonable sin of willfully and maliciously doing things they know to be wrong and lose the protection that has been given them by our loving Saviour and His Father. I believe Judas was one who had been given the power to cast out devils, and committed that terrible Apostasy in betraying our Saviour.
We can hope that there are few that commit apostasy, but I believe it behooves us all to walk that straight and narrow path once we have received that Holy Spirit. St. Paul said very clearly, “If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His” – Rom. 8:9.)
Be careful in how you understand Acts 5:32

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Nobody can obey except by the Holy Spirit. So don't read the verse to think that it means once you obey you receive the Spirit. But rather obedience is the fruit of the Spirit. So if someone obeys God then obviously God had already given them the Spirit. Some read that and put the obedience before the Spirit. The Spirit exists before the obedience.

Remember without the Spirit you cannot have the power to be obedient.

1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-25-2010, 03:33 PM
 
42 posts, read 23,167 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
A way to understand salvation is to NOT think of yourself as being saved but consider that only ONE person (Christ) was saved and that we have to become members of His Body that become saved as a part of Him. So unless were a member of His Body we are unsaved.

All of God's creation was given to the Word, who is Jesus Christ. He died for all his people, not just sinners who call themselves Christians.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-26-2010, 07:09 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
811 posts, read 311,676 times
Reputation: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Be careful in how you understand Acts 5:32

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Nobody can obey except by the Holy Spirit. So don't read the verse to think that it means once you obey you receive the Spirit. But rather obedience is the fruit of the Spirit. So if someone obeys God then obviously God had already given them the Spirit. Some read that and put the obedience before the Spirit. The Spirit exists before the obedience.

Remember without the Spirit you cannot have the power to be obedient.

1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
trettep.
You are absolutely right, if we do not have the Spirit of Christ within us, we do not have the ability to be obedient.
Rom. 8:
[5]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[6] For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[8] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
But God knows the heart of the true believer, that he does "hunger and thirst after righteousness" and as Jesus promised, "he shall be filled" (Matt. 5:6.) Therefore Good gives him the Holy Ghost so that he can become obedient. Since it is the Spirit of Christ which is doing the work, we have nothing of which we can Boast (Eph. 2:9.)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-26-2010, 08:37 AM
 
5,657 posts, read 2,872,169 times
Reputation: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert M Prince View Post
trettep.
You are absolutely right, if we do not have the Spirit of Christ within us, we do not have the ability to be obedient.
Rom. 8:
[5]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[6] For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[8] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
But God knows the heart of the true believer, that he does "hunger and thirst after righteousness" and as Jesus promised, "he shall be filled" (Matt. 5:6.) Therefore Good gives him the Holy Ghost so that he can become obedient. Since it is the Spirit of Christ which is doing the work, we have nothing of which we can Boast (Eph. 2:9.)
A person can only become a believer if he has been drawn by the Father. Otherwise, the Carnal mind HATES God (as you quoted). So even that "hunger and thirst" you mentioned can only be a fruit of the Spirit also.

This is why I embrace Universalism, anything else goes contrary to God's purpose and nature for us.

For we know that Jesus lost none of those given to Him except where He desired to lose one (Judas). So God obviously has the power to retain all those to whom He has given the Spirit to and lose those that He desires to (only to eventually save them later).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-26-2010, 08:38 AM
 
5,657 posts, read 2,872,169 times
Reputation: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by thevoiceofgod View Post
All of God's creation was given to the Word, who is Jesus Christ. He died for all his people, not just sinners who call themselves Christians.
I'm a total believer in Universalism, so I hear ya.

Praise Jesus!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top