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Old 06-10-2009, 08:55 PM
 
3,259 posts, read 5,072,464 times
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1. If salvation can be lost, this requires a complete reversal of regeneration. In other words, this means that the person born again must become unborn again. Also, if that person repents, then that person must become born again again. Therefore, can a persoN also be born again, again and again? Where does it end? Is regeneration not permanent?

2. If our salvation can be lost, ETERNAL LIFE cannot be eternal life. It could only be temporary hope for eternal life that couldn't become eternal life until after we die. As long as we are still on Earth, how can we call ETERNAL what can be lost? 1 John 5:13 says that the life we have is eternal, not possibly or potentially eternal or to be determined by whetever we manage to keep or lose it. It says we can KNOW that we have eternal life. Thus, how can we know that ouf our salvation isn't secure?

3. Another point to consider is if we can lose our salvation, we can also keep it by abstaining from whatever it takes to lose it---fornication, homosexuality, adultery, drunkardness etc. When you think about it, it makes it at least some what dependent on our own merits instead of our dependence on the sacrifice Jesus made for all of us. Also, this is in sync with the Scripture's teaching that salvation is a miraculous work of God, DEPENDENT ON HIM, NOT US. FOR IT IS BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED, THROUGH FAITH AND THIS NOT FROM YOURSELVES, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD NOT BY WORKS, SO THAT NO ONE CAN BOAST. God wants no one to boast about how they got into heaven,and that is why salvation is offered completely by Him and by Him alone through his Son.

I could just imagine people saying when they got to heaven, how I did this, and did that to get into heaven, and questioning others about what they did to get there, and if the other person didn't do enough good deeds then it would probably be an issue for those persons would would think it wasn't fair that some christians got into heaven by doing lesser deeds or works than them, which God never intended in the first place.

4. These are just some questions for you to ponder. If we can lose our salvation, how can we lose it? How can we keep it? What does our answer say about the nature of salvation and who it depends on? Is salvation a 50/50 proposition? Is it 10% us and 90% God? 90% God and 10% us? We earn rewards by our work for God through our faith in Jesus Christ as a result of becoming a new creation/creature in Christ, done in TOTAL dependence on Him, but salvation is not earned; it's not a reward. IT'S A GIFT OF GOD, EARNED ONLY BY CHRIST, NOT US.

Last edited by antredd; 06-10-2009 at 09:03 PM..
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Old 06-10-2009, 09:36 PM
 
10,159 posts, read 10,467,989 times
Reputation: 3011
The problem is in Revelation 3:5 Jesus says He will not blot the church of Sardis' name out of the Book of Life if they behave. That suggests that He could if they didn't behave. I would be wary of having this happen to you!
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Old 06-10-2009, 10:47 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,210,658 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd View Post
1. If salvation can be lost, this requires a complete reversal of regeneration. In other words, this means that the person born again must become unborn again. Also, if that person repents, then that person must become born again again. Therefore, can a persoN also be born again, again and again? Where does it end? Is regeneration not permanent?
Dear antredd...I give this to you in love...

1 Peter 1:1 This letter is from Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ. I am writing to God's chosen people who are living as foreigners in the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocis, Asia, and Bithynia.
1:2 God the Father knew you and chose you long ago, and His Spirit has made you holy. As a result, you have obeyed Him and have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ.

"BORN AGAIN TO A LIVING HOPE...THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE"

1 Peter 1:3 All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is by His great mercy and grace that we have been born again, because God raised Jesus Christ from the dead. Now we live with great expectation,
1:4 and we have a priceless inheritance - an inheritance that is kept in heaven for you, pure and undefiled, beyond the reach of change and decay.
1:5 And through your faith, God is protecting you by His power until you receive this salvation, which is ready to be revealed on the last day for all to see.
1:6 So be truly glad. There is wonderful joy ahead, even though you have to endure many trials for a little while. These trials will show that your faith is genuine. It [your faith] is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold - though your faith is far more precious than gold. So when your faith remains strong through many trials, it will bring you much praise and glory and honor on the day when Jesus Christ is revealed to the whole world.
1:8 You love Him even though you have never seen Him. Though you do not see Him now, you trust Him; and you rejoice with a glorious, inexpressible joy.

1:9 THE REWARD FOR TRUSTING [OBEYING] HIM WILL BE THE SALVATION OF YOUR SOULS.

1:10 This salvation was something even the prophets wanted to know more about when they prophesied about this gracious salvation prepared for you.

Quote:
2. If our salvation can be lost, ETERNAL LIFE cannot be eternal life. It could only be temporary hope for eternal life that couldn't become eternal life until after we die. As long as we are still on Earth, how can we call ETERNAL what can be lost? 1 John 5:13 says that the life we have is eternal, not possibly or potentially eternal or to be determined by whetever we manage to keep or lose it. It says we can KNOW that we have eternal life. Thus, how can we know that ouf our salvation isn't secure?
If you do not work out your salvation with fear and trembling while here on earth, and obey His commandments until Jesus' second coming, you will not be saved...rescued from the judgement of death...eternal destruction..seperated for all eternity from God...death. There will be no ETERNAL LIFE for you to enjoy in the Presence of God.

Quote:
3. Another point to consider is if we can lose our salvation, we can also keep it by abstaining from whatever it takes to lose it---fornication, homosexuality, adultery, drunkardness etc. When you think about it, it makes it at least some what dependent on our own merits instead of our dependence on the sacrifice Jesus made for all of us.
Christ died on the cross to cleans old sins away...past sins...His one time sacrifice washed us clean from sins past...P-A-S-T S-I-N-S.

2 Peter 1:3 By His divine power, God has given us everything we need for living a godly life. We have received all of this by coming to KNOW HIM, the One Who called us to Himself by means of His marvelous glory and excellance.

1:4 And because of His glory and excellance, He has given us great and precious promises. These are the promises that enable you to share His divine nature and escape the world's corruption caused by human desires.

1:5 In view of all this, make every effort to respond to God's promises. Supplement your faith with a generous provision of moral excellance, and moral excellance with knowledge,

1:6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with patient ENDURANCE, and patient endurance with godliness,

1:7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love for everyone.

1:8 The more you grow like this, the more productive and useful you will be in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1:9 BUT THOSE WHO FAIL TO DEVELOPE IN THIS WAY ARE SHORTSIGHTED OR BLIND, FORGETTING THEY HAVE BEEN CLEANSED FROM THEIR OLD SINS.

1:10 So, dear brothers and sisters, work hard to prove you ARE REALLY AMONG THOSE GOD HAS CALLED AND CHOSEN. DO THESE THINGS, AND YOU WILL NEVER FALL AWAY.

1:11 THEN GOD WILL GIVE YOU A GRAND ENTRANCE INTO THE ETERNAL KINGDOM OF OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST.



Quote:
this is in sync with the Scripture's teaching that salvation is a miraculous work of God, DEPENDENT ON HIM, NOT US. FOR IT IS BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED, THROUGH FAITH AND THIS NOT FROM YOURSELVES, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD NOT BY WORKS, SO THAT NO ONE CAN BOAST. God wants no one to boast about how they got into heaven,and that is why salvation is offered completely by Him and by Him alone through his Son.
Amen....through faith...which means to obey.


Quote:
4.These are just some questions for you to ponder. If we can lose our salvation, how can we lose it? How can we keep it? What does our answer say about the nature of salvation and who it depends on? Is salvation a 50/50 proposition? Is it 10% us and 90% God? 90% God and 10% us? We earn rewards by our work for God through our faith in Jesus Christ as a result of becoming a new creation/creature in Christ, done in TOTAL dependence on Him, but salvation is not earned; it's not a reward. IT'S A GIFT OF GOD, EARNED ONLY BY CHRIST, NOT US.
1:9 THE REWARD FOR TRUSTING [OBEYING] HIM WILL BE THE SALVATION OF YOUR SOULS.

1 Peter 1:17 AND REMEMBER THAT THE HEAVENLY FATHER TO WHOM YOU PRAY HAS NO FAVORITES. HE WILL JUDGE OR REWARD YOU ACCORDING TO WHAT YOU DO. SO YOU MUST LIVE IN REVERANT FEAR OF HIM DURING YOUR TIME AS "FOREIGNERS" IN THE LAND.

YOU WERE CLEANSED FROM YOUR SINS WHEN YOU OBEYED THE TRUTH, SO NOW SHOW SINCERE LOVE. (1 PETER 1:22).

I love you,
Verna.
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Old 06-10-2009, 11:00 PM
 
Location: Central US
852 posts, read 1,169,708 times
Reputation: 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd View Post
1. If salvation can be lost, this requires a complete reversal of regeneration. In other words, this means that the person born again must become unborn again. Also, if that person repents, then that person must become born again again. Therefore, can a persoN also be born again, again and again? Where does it end? Is regeneration not permanent?

2. If our salvation can be lost, ETERNAL LIFE cannot be eternal life. It could only be temporary hope for eternal life that couldn't become eternal life until after we die. As long as we are still on Earth, how can we call ETERNAL what can be lost? 1 John 5:13 says that the life we have is eternal, not possibly or potentially eternal or to be determined by whetever we manage to keep or lose it. It says we can KNOW that we have eternal life. Thus, how can we know that ouf our salvation isn't secure?

3. Another point to consider is if we can lose our salvation, we can also keep it by abstaining from whatever it takes to lose it---fornication, homosexuality, adultery, drunkardness etc. When you think about it, it makes it at least some what dependent on our own merits instead of our dependence on the sacrifice Jesus made for all of us. Also, this is in sync with the Scripture's teaching that salvation is a miraculous work of God, DEPENDENT ON HIM, NOT US. FOR IT IS BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED, THROUGH FAITH AND THIS NOT FROM YOURSELVES, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD NOT BY WORKS, SO THAT NO ONE CAN BOAST. God wants no one to boast about how they got into heaven,and that is why salvation is offered completely by Him and by Him alone through his Son.

I could just imagine people saying when they got to heaven, how I did this, and did that to get into heaven, and questioning others about what they did to get there, and if the other person didn't do enough good deeds then it would probably be an issue for those persons would would think it wasn't fair that some christians got into heaven by doing lesser deeds or works than them, which God never intended in the first place.

4. These are just some questions for you to ponder. If we can lose our salvation, how can we lose it? How can we keep it? What does our answer say about the nature of salvation and who it depends on? Is salvation a 50/50 proposition? Is it 10% us and 90% God? 90% God and 10% us? We earn rewards by our work for God through our faith in Jesus Christ as a result of becoming a new creation/creature in Christ, done in TOTAL dependence on Him, but salvation is not earned; it's not a reward. IT'S A GIFT OF GOD, EARNED ONLY BY CHRIST, NOT US.
Hi Antredd,
Long time, no see!
Your post is very thought provoking....
I believe that by believing in Christ----really believing----that the Holy Spirit will guide us.
All people's thinking may not be exactly alike...but IMO you should believe what you believe in your own heart.
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Old 06-10-2009, 11:08 PM
 
3,259 posts, read 5,072,464 times
Reputation: 1470
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
The problem is in Revelation 3:5 Jesus says He will not blot the church of Sardis' name out of the Book of Life if they behave. That suggests that He could if they didn't behave. I would be wary of having this happen to you!
You didn't quote the verse, and since you didn't quote the Scripture, I did for you. It says KJV:

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Does the idea of blotting out a name from the Book of Life imply loss of salvation? The Book of Life is mentioned throughout the Scriptures: Exodus 32:32; Daniel 12:1; Luke 10:10; Philippians 4:3; Revelation 3:5; 13:8; 17:8; 20:12; 20:15. These passages tell us some very interesting facts.

The Book of Life has the names of all members of the human race who would ever live from the time of Adam and Eve, to the last person in human history. The reason it has the names of all members of the human race is because Jesus Christ died on the cross and paid for all the sins of all members of the human race, from Adam to the last person in human history. Therefore, because of what Jesus Christ did on the cross, all members of the human race are potentially saved.

When a person dies, and has not accepted Jesus Christ as his personal Savior through faith, then his name is blotted out of The Book of Life.

Therefore, when eternity begins, the only names left in The Book of Life are those who have believed in Jesus Christ, or those who have not reached the age of accountability for one reason or another.

At the end of time The Book of Life will only have the names of those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. During time the book of life contains the names of everyone, but everyone who dies without believing in Christ will have his name blotted out of the book, but not until he dies. Therefore, the only names who will be in The Book of Life at the end of time will be of those who accepted Jesus Christ in time, as John 3:18 states; "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."

John 3:36; "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever does not believe in the Son will not see life, because God's wrath (judgment) rests on him."

Revelation 20:11-15; "Then I saw a great White Throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, (great and small refers to important people and not so important people) standing before the throne, and THE BOOKS WERE OPENED. Another book was opened WHICH IS THE BOOK OF LIFE. The dead were judged according to their works (good deeds) as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades (the dwelling place of the dead. This refers to "hell") gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to their works. (according to his good deeds) Then death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written IN THE BOOK OF LIFE, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

The Book of Life is the book of physical life. As one commentary puts it, the Lamb’s Book of Life is the book of eternal life. When we are born the first time, God places our names in the Book of Life. When we are born the second time, God places us in the book of eternal life, a register and roll of all who shall inherit eternal life. When we die, God blots us out of the Book of Life. God never blots our names out of the Lamb’s Book of life.

“Then Moses returned to the Lord and said, ‘Oh, these people have committed a great sin, and have made for themselves a god of gold!’ ‘Yet now, if You will forgive their sin—but if not, I pray, blot me out of Your book which You have written’” (Exodus 32: 31-32).

Moses asks God to kill him. He asks God to take him out of the book of physical life. Jesus will physically blot out the life of those who do not gain victory in their spiritual lives. This letter is a challenge to the church of Sardis. The context deals with an active church with many ministries but also a church that is devoid of spiritual fruit. Therefore, Jesus will blot this church out of existence if she does not repent. This passage in context does not deal with salvation but with a church out of phase with God.

Taking on the position that we can lose our salvation means works justify us. This falls short of salvation by faith alone, by grace alone. Salvation is free, a gift of God based on the death of Christ for our sins (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Here's another point to consider even if you still don't agree with me. If we did not become Christians by good works, then we cannot become non-Christians by bad works.

God bases our salvation on the finished work of Christ, not on our works. A person can never have the security of eternal life by what he does; he can only have eternal security based on what Christ did.
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Old 06-10-2009, 11:12 PM
 
3,259 posts, read 5,072,464 times
Reputation: 1470
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherryturner View Post
Hi Antredd,
Long time, no see!
Your post is very thought provoking....
I believe that by believing in Christ----really believing----that the Holy Spirit will guide us.
All people's thinking may not be exactly alike...but IMO you should believe what you believe in your own heart.
Thank you and God bless. I am ready for a good dialogue on this topic, that in my opinion, many just won't see the finished work Jesus did for all of us. I just don't get it, but I get Jesus, and what he has done for me. Halleluah!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 06-10-2009, 11:19 PM
 
3,259 posts, read 5,072,464 times
Reputation: 1470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Dear antredd...I give this to you in love...

1 Peter 1:1 This letter is from Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ. I am writing to God's chosen people who are living as foreigners in the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocis, Asia, and Bithynia.
1:2 God the Father knew you and chose you long ago, and His Spirit has made you holy. As a result, you have obeyed Him and have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ.

"BORN AGAIN TO A LIVING HOPE...THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE"

1 Peter 1:3 All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is by His great mercy and grace that we have been born again, because God raised Jesus Christ from the dead. Now we live with great expectation,
1:4 and we have a priceless inheritance - an inheritance that is kept in heaven for you, pure and undefiled, beyond the reach of change and decay.
1:5 And through your faith, God is protecting you by His power until you receive this salvation, which is ready to be revealed on the last day for all to see.
1:6 So be truly glad. There is wonderful joy ahead, even though you have to endure many trials for a little while. These trials will show that your faith is genuine. It [your faith] is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold - though your faith is far more precious than gold. So when your faith remains strong through many trials, it will bring you much praise and glory and honor on the day when Jesus Christ is revealed to the whole world.
1:8 You love Him even though you have never seen Him. Though you do not see Him now, you trust Him; and you rejoice with a glorious, inexpressible joy.

1:9 THE REWARD FOR TRUSTING [OBEYING] HIM WILL BE THE SALVATION OF YOUR SOULS.

1:10 This salvation was something even the prophets wanted to know more about when they prophesied about this gracious salvation prepared for you.



If you do not work out your salvation with fear and trembling while here on earth, and obey His commandments until Jesus' second coming, you will not be saved...rescued from the judgement of death...eternal destruction..seperated for all eternity from God...death. There will be no ETERNAL LIFE for you to enjoy in the Presence of God.



Christ died on the cross to cleans old sins away...past sins...His one time sacrifice washed us clean from sins past...P-A-S-T S-I-N-S.

2 Peter 1:3 By His divine power, God has given us everything we need for living a godly life. We have received all of this by coming to KNOW HIM, the One Who called us to Himself by means of His marvelous glory and excellance.

1:4 And because of His glory and excellance, He has given us great and precious promises. These are the promises that enable you to share His divine nature and escape the world's corruption caused by human desires.

1:5 In view of all this, make every effort to respond to God's promises. Supplement your faith with a generous provision of moral excellance, and moral excellance with knowledge,

1:6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with patient ENDURANCE, and patient endurance with godliness,

1:7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love for everyone.

1:8 The more you grow like this, the more productive and useful you will be in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1:9 BUT THOSE WHO FAIL TO DEVELOPE IN THIS WAY ARE SHORTSIGHTED OR BLIND, FORGETTING THEY HAVE BEEN CLEANSED FROM THEIR OLD SINS.

1:10 So, dear brothers and sisters, work hard to prove you ARE REALLY AMONG THOSE GOD HAS CALLED AND CHOSEN. DO THESE THINGS, AND YOU WILL NEVER FALL AWAY.

1:11 THEN GOD WILL GIVE YOU A GRAND ENTRANCE INTO THE ETERNAL KINGDOM OF OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST.





Amen....through faith...which means to obey.




1:9 THE REWARD FOR TRUSTING [OBEYING] HIM WILL BE THE SALVATION OF YOUR SOULS.

1 Peter 1:17 AND REMEMBER THAT THE HEAVENLY FATHER TO WHOM YOU PRAY HAS NO FAVORITES. HE WILL JUDGE OR REWARD YOU ACCORDING TO WHAT YOU DO. SO YOU MUST LIVE IN REVERANT FEAR OF HIM DURING YOUR TIME AS "FOREIGNERS" IN THE LAND.

YOU WERE CLEANSED FROM YOUR SINS WHEN YOU OBEYED THE TRUTH, SO NOW SHOW SINCERE LOVE. (1 PETER 1:22).

I love you,
Verna.
Verna, I love you too. Are you saying that WORK OUT OUR SALVATION, is the same as WORK FOR OUR SALVATION? IF SO, I would have to severely disagree with you. We work out our salvation out of GROWING MORE OBEDIENT AND LIKE THE LORD THROUGH PROGRESSIVE SANCTIFICATION.

None of us are intantly born again PERFECT, AND I THINK YOU HAVE MISSED THE MARK, if you think that we can enter heaven on OUR OWN MERIT. That means you have leaped frog over Jesus, overriding his sacrifical death, making it VOID TOO which is contrary to Scripture. Jesus paid that price for all of us, and all of our sins, past, present and future or he would not have told us to pray forgive us of our trespasses as we forgive our trespassers in the Lord's prayer. We must confess present and future sins just to stay in fellowship with God, even though when we are at our most righteous, God still sees us as a filthy rag, in fact a filthy menstrual rag women used to use.
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Old 06-10-2009, 11:42 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,210,658 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd View Post
Are you saying that WORK OUT OUR SALVATION, is the same as WORK FOR OUR SALVATION?
..."work out our salvation"..."work for our salvation"..."in fear and trembling..."......maybe you could explain the difference to me...? And I'M not the One "saying" this...the Word of God is the One Who commanded us to do this, if we planned on receiving our REWARD OF SALVATON.


Quote:
IF SO, I would have to severely disagree with you. We work out our salvation out of GROWING MORE OBEDIENT
RIGHT!!!...

Quote:
AND LIKE THE LORD THROUGH PROGRESSIVE SANCTIFICATION.
...would you mind explaining..."and like the Lord?"

Quote:
None of us are intantly born again PERFECT, AND I THINK YOU HAVE MISSED THE MARK, if you think that we can enter heaven on OUR OWN MERIT.
...where, in the SCRIPTURES, that I quoted from the Bible, did you read this?

Quote:
That means you have leaped frog over Jesus, overriding his sacrifical death, making it VOID TOO which is contrary to Scripture.
No, I didn't...No, it isn't. Did you even read my reply to you?

Quote:
Jesus paid that price for all of us, and all of our sins, past, present and future or he would not have told us to pray forgive us of our trespasses as we forgive our trespassers in the Lord's prayer. We must confess present and future sins just to stay in fellowship with God, even though when we are at our most righteous, God still sees us as a filthy rag, in fact a filthy menstrual rag women used to use.
You are "missing the mark" antredd...you do not understand...

I love you
Verna.

Last edited by Verna Perry; 06-11-2009 at 12:15 AM..
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Old 06-11-2009, 03:15 AM
 
Location: East Coast
29,855 posts, read 19,815,582 times
Reputation: 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Dear antredd...I give this to you in love...

1 Peter 1:1 This letter is from Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ. I am writing to God's chosen people who are living as foreigners in the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocis, Asia, and Bithynia.
1:2 God the Father knew you and chose you long ago, and His Spirit has made you holy. As a result, you have obeyed Him and have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ.

"BORN AGAIN TO A LIVING HOPE...THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE"

1 Peter 1:3 All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is by His great mercy and grace that we have been born again, because God raised Jesus Christ from the dead. Now we live with great expectation,
1:4 and we have a priceless inheritance - an inheritance that is kept in heaven for you, pure and undefiled, beyond the reach of change and decay.
1:5 And through your faith, God is protecting you by His power until you receive this salvation, which is ready to be revealed on the last day for all to see.
1:6 So be truly glad. There is wonderful joy ahead, even though you have to endure many trials for a little while. These trials will show that your faith is genuine. It [your faith] is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold - though your faith is far more precious than gold. So when your faith remains strong through many trials, it will bring you much praise and glory and honor on the day when Jesus Christ is revealed to the whole world.
1:8 You love Him even though you have never seen Him. Though you do not see Him now, you trust Him; and you rejoice with a glorious, inexpressible joy.

1:9 THE REWARD FOR TRUSTING [OBEYING] HIM WILL BE THE SALVATION OF YOUR SOULS.

1:10 This salvation was something even the prophets wanted to know more about when they prophesied about this gracious salvation prepared for you.



If you do not work out your salvation with fear and trembling while here on earth, and obey His commandments until Jesus' second coming, you will not be saved...rescued from the judgement of death...eternal destruction..seperated for all eternity from God...death. There will be no ETERNAL LIFE for you to enjoy in the Presence of God.



Christ died on the cross to cleans old sins away...past sins...His one time sacrifice washed us clean from sins past...P-A-S-T S-I-N-S.

2 Peter 1:3 By His divine power, God has given us everything we need for living a godly life. We have received all of this by coming to KNOW HIM, the One Who called us to Himself by means of His marvelous glory and excellance.

1:4 And because of His glory and excellance, He has given us great and precious promises. These are the promises that enable you to share His divine nature and escape the world's corruption caused by human desires.

1:5 In view of all this, make every effort to respond to God's promises. Supplement your faith with a generous provision of moral excellance, and moral excellance with knowledge,

1:6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with patient ENDURANCE, and patient endurance with godliness,

1:7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love for everyone.

1:8 The more you grow like this, the more productive and useful you will be in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1:9 BUT THOSE WHO FAIL TO DEVELOPE IN THIS WAY ARE SHORTSIGHTED OR BLIND, FORGETTING THEY HAVE BEEN CLEANSED FROM THEIR OLD SINS.

1:10 So, dear brothers and sisters, work hard to prove you ARE REALLY AMONG THOSE GOD HAS CALLED AND CHOSEN. DO THESE THINGS, AND YOU WILL NEVER FALL AWAY.

1:11 THEN GOD WILL GIVE YOU A GRAND ENTRANCE INTO THE ETERNAL KINGDOM OF OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST.





Amen....through faith...which means to obey.




1:9 THE REWARD FOR TRUSTING [OBEYING] HIM WILL BE THE SALVATION OF YOUR SOULS.

1 Peter 1:17 AND REMEMBER THAT THE HEAVENLY FATHER TO WHOM YOU PRAY HAS NO FAVORITES. HE WILL JUDGE OR REWARD YOU ACCORDING TO WHAT YOU DO. SO YOU MUST LIVE IN REVERANT FEAR OF HIM DURING YOUR TIME AS "FOREIGNERS" IN THE LAND.

YOU WERE CLEANSED FROM YOUR SINS WHEN YOU OBEYED THE TRUTH, SO NOW SHOW SINCERE LOVE. (1 PETER 1:22).

I love you,
Verna.
Lord have mercy on us
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Old 06-11-2009, 06:20 AM
 
Location: St. Joseph Area
6,237 posts, read 8,219,059 times
Reputation: 3088
Quote:
Originally posted by antredd
1. If salvation can be lost, this requires a complete reversal of regeneration. In other words, this means that the person born again must become unborn again. Also, if that person repents, then that person must become born again again. Therefore, can a persoN also be born again, again and again? Where does it end? Is regeneration not permanent?

2. If our salvation can be lost, ETERNAL LIFE cannot be eternal life. It could only be temporary hope for eternal life that couldn't become eternal life until after we die. As long as we are still on Earth, how can we call ETERNAL what can be lost? 1 John 5:13 says that the life we have is eternal, not possibly or potentially eternal or to be determined by whetever we manage to keep or lose it. It says we can KNOW that we have eternal life. Thus, how can we know that ouf our salvation isn't secure?

3. Another point to consider is if we can lose our salvation, we can also keep it by abstaining from whatever it takes to lose it---fornication, homosexuality, adultery, drunkardness etc. When you think about it, it makes it at least some what dependent on our own merits instead of our dependence on the sacrifice Jesus made for all of us. Also, this is in sync with the Scripture's teaching that salvation is a miraculous work of God, DEPENDENT ON HIM, NOT US. FOR IT IS BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED, THROUGH FAITH AND THIS NOT FROM YOURSELVES, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD NOT BY WORKS, SO THAT NO ONE CAN BOAST. God wants no one to boast about how they got into heaven,and that is why salvation is offered completely by Him and by Him alone through his Son.

I could just imagine people saying when they got to heaven, how I did this, and did that to get into heaven, and questioning others about what they did to get there, and if the other person didn't do enough good deeds then it would probably be an issue for those persons would would think it wasn't fair that some christians got into heaven by doing lesser deeds or works than them, which God never intended in the first place.

4. These are just some questions for you to ponder. If we can lose our salvation, how can we lose it? How can we keep it? What does our answer say about the nature of salvation and who it depends on? Is salvation a 50/50 proposition? Is it 10% us and 90% God? 90% God and 10% us? We earn rewards by our work for God through our faith in Jesus Christ as a result of becoming a new creation/creature in Christ, done in TOTAL dependence on Him, but salvation is not earned; it's not a reward. IT'S A GIFT OF GOD, EARNED ONLY BY CHRIST, NOT US.
Hi antredd!

These are all good arguments, but passages in the New Testament show that apostasy is a real thing for christians. There are many warnings against "falling away" and becoming "lukewarm" Hebrews 6:4-6 and the Laodicean passage are the first that come to mind. What should I do with those passages?

Believe me, I'd like to believe that you can't lose your salvation, but I'm very skeptical about it.
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