U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-13-2009, 11:15 PM
 
Location: Central US
852 posts, read 798,729 times
Reputation: 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I can't believe what I'm reading!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Has Christian doctrine descended that low that obedience, a foundation of Christianity, is treated with such disdain???????

John: 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey my commandments"

John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

I am beyond shocked. I'm truly heartbroken!
Against my better judgement, I find myself posting again...
But I will stand with you thrillobyte and stand for the Lord.
Thank you for being here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-13-2009, 11:17 PM
 
6,177 posts, read 4,719,909 times
Reputation: 1661
That's an excellent study, Harold!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-13-2009, 11:20 PM
 
6,177 posts, read 4,719,909 times
Reputation: 1661
Quote:
Against my better judgement, I find myself posting again...
But I will stand with you thrillobyte and stand for the Lord.
Thank you for being here.
Right back at ya, Sherry!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-13-2009, 11:41 PM
 
Location: NC
11,039 posts, read 8,618,078 times
Reputation: 1236
Did you read the rest of pcamps post whole post, thrillobyte?

Quote:
I truly believe those who walk in obedience do not have to shout about it.

We are all standing for the Lord and seek to please Him, hopefully. God bless.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2009, 12:03 AM
 
2,940 posts, read 3,093,332 times
Reputation: 1537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
Respect that. So the ones that don't learn, that don't grow, don't change, that don't appreciate God's holiness, refuses His holiness, His righteousness, justice, mercy, agape love, those who ARE EVIL, that LOVE SIN, these...........what? What happen to these?
Are they thrown into the lake of fire with the 11 and 12 yr olds who died before saying a sinners prayer?

Quote:
Make it make sense to me...........
The problem is everyone thinks THEY are holier than thou. Everyone thinks THEY are the obediant ones. Everyone thinks THEY are the ones to whom God is gonna say, well done my good and faithful servant. I have news for you...no matter how righteous YOU think YOU are...no matter how obediant YOU think YOU are..there is always someone out there living a more righteous life than you. Someone out there who is more obediant than you. God doesn`t grade on a curve. The only thing you can do as a human being is compare your righteous obediant life to other fallable human beings. Maybe you think that warrants you something because you are more obediant than your neighbor. Well, good for you. But it isn`t going to get you anything. Because you are still well short of where you should be. I don`t see anybody giving up all they own for the cause of Christ. I don`t see anyone doing everything they possibly can for the cause of Christ. There are millions of people dieing every year due to lack of food, and clean water to drink. What are you, me , any of us doing about it? Are we doing all we can to help them. The answer is a big fat NO. Think about that the next time you go to the store to buy clothes, a new car, pay your cable bill ( which God knows you really need) put money into your retirement account or any other thing we friviously spend money on. I get so tired of people acting like they are so obediant to Christ, acting like how much they love their Lord and Savior blah blah blah. We all have room for improvement. So until you think you have reached the pinnacle of holiness stop talking about how holy and obediant you are. Because a lot of people (especially in this country) are in for a big surprise when they finally get their wish and are standing in front of the lamb of God. Including me!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2009, 12:12 AM
 
7,374 posts, read 4,193,151 times
Reputation: 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Kupp View Post
Your understanding is faulty - you are making John contradict himself:

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil;

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;


For a complete study go here


HK

Again, it appears that the bible is contradicting itself doesn't it? Even Paul considered himself to be the chief among sinners. And Peter was rebuked for his sin of preferring the circumcision. Not to mention the people in Galatia, in specific a man who had his fathers wife, whom later they were told to forgive because he had repented. What about Romans 7:14-25; Philippians 3:12-13, (just to name a few verses that could be used to argue against your interpretation) which demonstrate that the Christians will sin even after being initially washed by the blood of the lamb.

Quote:
Lenski explained that 1 John 3:6,9 uses a Greek construction called the present durative, which should be translated “does not go on sinning” (pp. 458,462). John, then, is saying no more in these verses than what Paul was saying in Romans 6:1-2, when he stated: “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any long in it?” Numerous other verses teach that Christians will commit sins, even after they have been washed in the blood of Christ (cf. Romans 7:14-25; Philippians 3:12-13). However, John is saying that any person who rebelliously continues to sin, making it his or her usual, habitual way of life, is not following God. In 1 John 3:9, the Greek present infinitive means to habitually sin without compunction. In more practical terms (to offer an example), it is one thing for a Christian to slip up and commit an act of sexual immorality for which he or she is penitent. It is altogether another thing for a person to live as a prostitute and claim to be “having fellowship with the Father” (1 John 1:6).

Therefore, it is easily shown that no discrepancies exist between the verses under discussion in 1 John. Furthermore, it is refreshing to know that when a Christian does sin, “we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.”
Whats more we have Paul who explains that Christ having suffered and died for sin, provided propitiation for sin evermore. And that though we be dead in the flesh to sin, we are alive in the spirit of Christ unto righteousness ...

"Romans 8:5-14 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. [6] The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; [7] the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. [8] Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. [9] You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. [10] But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. [11] And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you. [12] Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation--but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. [13] For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, [14] because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God." [NIV]

This idea is further developed when paul says,

1 Corinthians 6:12
"All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any."

Romans 14:14
"I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is
unclean."

Romans 14:22 & 23
"Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin."

Take Noah for instance, no sooner than the flood ends and what does he do? He plants a vineyard and starts drinking! yet the lord already declared him righteous and for that reason saved and his family. So was noah really righteous in that he did not sin? Or was he righteous as Abraham was righteous in that he had faith? All the heroes of the old testament where fervent sinners. Drunkards, Murderers and Womanizers and Idolaters ...

From Adam all the way through Noah, through Abraham, through Samson, through Moses, and Aaron through king David and Solomon ... Are they burning in hell forever because they continued to sin? What was counted unto them as righteousness? Was it their works or their faith?


Even Christ tells us in prayer to ask for forgiveness of trespasses, even as we forgive those who trespass against us ... If we never trespass after receiving Christ there would be no need to ask forgiveness.

James 5:16
"Be confessing to one another the trespasses, and be praying for one another, that ye may be healed; very strong is a working supplication of a righteous man;"

Here again here the believers are told to confess their trespasses ...

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 06-14-2009 at 01:07 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2009, 12:16 AM
 
7,374 posts, read 4,193,151 times
Reputation: 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
There's 50/50 chance we 're both wrong, as there's enough scripture to support both views. Would you want to gamble with your eternal destiny on a questionable doctrine??? I wouldn't. I may be wrong and you may be right, but all I've lost by being wrong is that I strove to conform myself to God's command to obedience to the best of my ability and lost some worldly pleasures in the process. OTOH, if I'm right and you're wrong what have you lost? Eternal bliss. What have you gained? Eternal damnation. I would not want to gamble on 50/50 odds with those kinds of stakes.
I don't make decisions based on fear or doubt, there is no point in it. Before i saw contradictions in the bible, now i have come to realize that the only contradictions are those erroneous interpretations which are based on bad translations. I have faith God has revealed the truth to me about these things, as i have been set free of the emotional and logical bondage of the fear of eternal torture for myself or anyone else. I am being true to my earnest convictions, that is all i can do if i am to be honest with myself or anyone else.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2009, 12:29 AM
 
2,940 posts, read 3,093,332 times
Reputation: 1537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
I don't make decisions based on fear or doubt, there is no point in it. Before i saw contradictions in the bible, now i have come to realize that the only contradictions are those erroneous interpretations which are based on bad translations. I have faith God has revealed the truth to me about these things, as i have been set free of the emotional and logical bondage of the fear of eternal torture for myself or anyone else. I am being true to my earnest convictions, that is all i can do if i am to be honest with myself or anyone else.
amen to this post. What is it with some on here who treat their belief and walk with God like it is a crapshoot, like they are gambling? What if I`m wrong..what if you`re wrong? At least if I`m wrong this will be the worst that will happen to me, etc. Are you kidding me? What if this and what if that! God doesn`t play with your life. This isn`t a what if game. God isn`t up there somewhere waiting to see what you will do? Ready to jump on you or throw you into some pit if you make the wrong decision. He`s not trying to trick you. He doesn`t create you and then leave it up to you, a fallable weak human being while he watches you squirm and wonder if you`re doing this right or this wrong. OMG, what if I`m wrong! What if this isn`t the way it`s upposed to be, what will God do? Pray, read, study and walk with God. He isn`t waiting to punish you if you screw up. All you can do is be true to what you believe. Pray, talk, walk with God. Converse with him. Actively SEEK the truth. Just pray for God`s will to be done in your life.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2009, 12:33 AM
 
Location: NC
11,039 posts, read 8,618,078 times
Reputation: 1236
Quote:
The problem is everyone thinks THEY are holier than thou. Everyone thinks THEY are the obediant ones. Everyone thinks THEY are the ones to whom God is gonna say, well done my good and faithful servant. I have news for you...no matter how righteous YOU think YOU are...no matter how obediant YOU think YOU are..there is always someone out there living a more righteous life than you. Someone out there who is more obediant than you. God doesn`t grade on a curve. The only thing you can do as a human being is compare your righteous obediant life to other fallable human beings. Maybe you think that warrants you something because you are more obediant than your neighbor. Well, good for you. But it isn`t going to get you anything. Because you are still well short of where you should be. I don`t see anybody giving up all they own for the cause of Christ. I don`t see anyone doing everything they possibly can for the cause of Christ. There are millions of people dieing every year due to lack of food, and clean water to drink. What are you, me , any of us doing about it? Are we doing all we can to help them. The answer is a big fat NO. Think about that the next time you go to the store to buy clothes, a new car, pay your cable bill ( which God knows you really need) put money into your retirement account or any other thing we friviously spend money on. I get so tired of people acting like they are so obediant to Christ, acting like how much they love their Lord and Savior blah blah blah. We all have room for improvement. So until you think you have reached the pinnacle of holiness stop talking about how holy and obediant you are. Because a lot of people (especially in this country) are in for a big surprise when they finally get their wish and are standing in front of the lamb of God. Including me!
So true, spm62. Thank you for sharing. God bless.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2009, 06:24 AM
 
Location: RI
18,949 posts, read 8,805,399 times
Reputation: 1328
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I can't believe what I'm reading!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Has Christian doctrine descended that low that obedience, a foundation of Christianity, is treated with such disdain???????

John: 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey my commandments"

John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

I am beyond shocked. I'm truly heartbroken!
Read again what i said .
I am denying the works based obedience . Those who walk in obedience have no need to shout out home about it.

Did you not read the whole post ?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:04 AM.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top