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Old 06-16-2009, 05:05 PM
 
Location: God's Country
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I thought I would be debating with the other side as well but only universalist answered the call. Do you think this is heresy?
Do I think what is heresy? That Jesus died for all?
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Old 06-16-2009, 05:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
1) (Hebrews 12:6) This verse was written by Hebrews to other Hebrews, a warning to them slipping back to their Judaism ways. Hebrews was written to three types; believers, unbelievers who had the gospel and unbelievers who were attracted to Him but still rejected Him.

Corinthians is the letter to Corinth and talks about judging. Sorry I have not a clue what those verses have to do with the elect? Your logic in the elect escapes me. You are way out of context in those verses.
If you don't think that God's elect are members of "every son whom he receiveth" then I don't no what else to say. God's elect are Sons of God. God receives them. Every one of God's elect will be chastnened whenever they fail to judge themselves.

Do you not think Paul is one of God's elect? He said when we are judged we are chastened of the Lord that we should not be condemned with the world. Someone, inclusive of Paul, is being chastened by God in order to be accepted by God and reign with Christ rather than being condemned with the world. Those who reign with Christ are God's elect.

Also those whom Christ quickens were formerly children of wrath. Surely those whom He quickens He died for. You did not address that part.
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Old 06-16-2009, 05:09 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,453,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Well lets establish the first thing We know that God loves the world John 3 16 and He is no respecter of persons which Calvinists have to believe to support their doctrine . So from the off you argument as no foundation.

Now lets move onto how many will be saved .

As in Adam all die even so in Christ all shall be made alive . Where is election of a chosen few in this scripture.

Your gospel is another gospel which tells us God never had a plan, He never had a purpose and only can be his true self to those who He supposedly chosen .

Because my Bible tells me God is , that means He is that He is that He is to whosoever and not a certain chosen few.
let's look at that verse, (John 3:16) shall we "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life"

"God so loved the world". What does that mean? Humanity. "He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life, for God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world but that the world should be saved through Him." Well immediately you know the world has to be qualified. If you don't qualify it, we're all going to come out universalists here, with everybody being saved. And we know that can't be true because the Bible is so clear on judgment."

The world is not the whole world but humanity, a system etc....So when God told us not to love the world, we shouldn't love everyone? ridiculous. The world that God loves does what, they believe. So God only loves the world that believes but how can one believe on His own unless God draws that person.

The rest you wrote are strawmans.
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Old 06-16-2009, 05:10 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,453,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
If you don't think that God's elect are members of "every son whom he receiveth" then I don't no what else to say. God's elect are Sons of God. God receives them. Every one of God's elect will be chastnened whenever they fail to judge themselves.

Do you not think Paul is one of God's elect? He said when we are judged we are chastened of the Lord that we should not be condemned with the world. Someone, inclusive of Paul, is being chastened by God in order to be accepted by God and reign with Christ rather than being condemned with the world. Those who reign with Christ are God's elect.

Also those whom Christ quickens were formerly children of wrath. Surely those whom He quickens He died for. You did not address that part.
God's elect are those that believe. Jesus died for His elect. If Jesus death was sufficient then all sins are forgiven. why the correction in the after life?
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Old 06-16-2009, 05:14 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,201 posts, read 19,986,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
let's look at that verse, (John 3:16) shall we "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life"

"God so loved the world". What does that mean? Humanity. "He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life, for God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world but that the world should be saved through Him." Well immediately you know the world has to be qualified. If you don't qualify it, we're all going to come out universalists here, with everybody being saved. And we know that can't be true because the Bible is so clear on judgment."

The world is not the whole world but humanity, a system etc....So when God told us not to love the world, we shouldn't love everyone? ridiculous. The world that God loves does what, they believe. So God only loves the world that believes but how can one believe on His own unless God draws that person.

What on earth are you talking about ??????

The rest you wrote are strawmans.
Of cause it's humanity.

When He told us not to love the world He was referring to the world system .

For example the world says curse those that curse you , Jesus said bless them that curse you .

The world tells us to hold grudges , Jesus said forgive them that trespass against us.
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Old 06-16-2009, 05:17 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,453,301 times
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Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Of cause it's humanity.

When He told us not to love the world He was referring to the world system .

For example the world says curse those that curse you , Jesus said bless them that curse you .

The world tells us to hold grudges , Jesus said forgive them that trespass against us.
so if it's humanity then there is a qualification to prove it is the entire world. THEY MUST BELIEVE and since the whole world doesn't believe how can they be saved?
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Old 06-16-2009, 05:18 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,453,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Do I think what is heresy? That Jesus died for all?
limited atonement?
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Old 06-16-2009, 05:21 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,201 posts, read 19,986,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
so if it's humanity then there is a qualification. THEY MUST BELIEVE and since the whole world doesn't believe how can they be saved?
They will believe "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord ".

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh .

Fundy more than enough posters have refuted your vain attempt to prove that God is a Calvinist , so why keep asking the same questions when they have been answered ? .
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Old 06-16-2009, 05:23 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,453,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
They will believe "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord ".

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh .
You are filling in the blanks. where do they believe? I can make that verse mean anything 2) there is no word, "believe" anywhere in that verse.
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Old 06-16-2009, 05:24 PM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,565,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
again "all" "men", "world", "us", is not what you think it is. This is directed at His elect not all men.
Last I checked the word "elect" is in God's vocabulary. It doesn't matter if the verse is written to God's elect. It's written about all men. And it's true.
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