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Old 06-16-2009, 07:03 PM
 
Location: NC
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I actually agree with this, Jesus did die for all, and we can have a relationship with Him, I even agree all will eventually believe, but for some it will be too late by the time they believe. Hope you had something good to eat Shana.
Thanks, ILNC! It is good..ummm..Chinese Wish I could offer you some God's blessings.
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Old 06-16-2009, 07:05 PM
 
Location: NC
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You are filling in the blanks. where do they believe? I can make that verse mean anything 2) there is no word, "believe" anywhere in that verse.

Quote:
How can one confess, profess Him before they believe and where is that in scripture?

Fundy, why did you confess, profess Him? It was because you believed!! Belief comes first. You would not confess/profess/proclaim Him as Lord and Savior if you did not believe....back to eating. God bless.
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Old 06-16-2009, 07:07 PM
 
Location: NC
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Quote:
When it say "saviour of all, especially believers" by your thinking this says saviour of all ELECT. but this can't be because it goes on to say especially believers.

In John 3:16 It says that if we believe we will not perish - it can't mean physcially die as believers still die a physical death after believing - In other places we are told that Jesus came to save the lost (perished)

Mat 18:11 For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost

lost/perished is the same word used G622
ἀπόλλυμι
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.


John 3:16-18 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

God sent Jesus to save the lost - if you believe, you are not condemned and you are not lost and will not perish

If you don't believe, you are condemned and are lost/perished, and those are the ones that Jesus came to save

I think that your reasoning goes against Jesus words


Mat 9:10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.
Mat 9:11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
Mat 9:12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
Mat 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Your theology is that Jesus came for the righteous /elect



The life that we receive is life in this age (now) and we do NOT perish. That does not mean that once this age is over that the life ends because we are told in 1 Cor that mortal is changed to immortal and that is not limited to only the elect it is for all ........ after the living/saved have their life in the age and the lost have their correction/judgement in the age.

1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

This says that what is sown is not quickened unless it dies first - only then it is quickened

After the second death comes the quickening
Good points, Meerkat. God bless.
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Old 06-16-2009, 07:08 PM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,565,611 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
There is nothing in scripture to prove we have a second chance after death.
You are a near calvinist and speak of salvation as a matter of chances?

Ezekiel 16 shows that God wiped out Sodom (dead) and they will be restored and their captivity removed (salvation words) and they will be received as daughters by those with whom God will establish His covenant and also receive.

Revelation 21 shows the Holy City, people outside the City, gates not shut to receive "the glory of the gentiles" which Isaiah 60 depicts as people sitting in darkness coming to the light of the Holy City and entering in.

Revelation 22 shows trees with leaves bearing fruit month after month for the healing of who? Are God's elect still in need of healing? And the Spriit and the Bride say "come!" who are they talking to? God's elect?
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Old 06-16-2009, 07:10 PM
 
1,686 posts, read 2,411,699 times
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Yes please. explain what the bible means
Fundy: the word all/ pa'▀ as used in he Scriptures is the following...

All=

This is how Dr. James Strong defines pa'▀.

pa'▀ =

"Pas; Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primitive word; all, any, every, the whole:--all (manner of, means), alway (-s) any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + bi (-thing), X throughly, whatsover, whole, whosover."

W.E. Vine M.A., author of A Greek Testament Grammar, and, A Comprehensive Dictionary of the Original Greek Words with their precise Meanings for English Readers.

All = pa'▀ =

Adjective #3956

Radically means "all."

Used without the article it means "every," every kind or variety. So the RV marg. in Eph. 2:21, "every building," and the text in Eph. 3:15, "every family," and the RV marg. of Acts 2:36, "every house;" or, it may signify "the highest degree," the maximum of what is referred to, as, "with all boldness" Acts 4:29.

Before proper names of countries, cities and nations, and before collective terms, like "Israel," it signifies either "all" or "the whole," e.g., Matt. 2:3; Acts 2:36.

Used with the article, it means the whole of one object.

In the plural it signifies "the totality of the persons or things referred to." Used without a noun it virtually becomes a pronoun, meaning "everyone" or "anyone."

In the plural with a noun it means "all."

One form of the neuter plural (panta) signifies "wholly, together, in all ways, in all things," Acts 20:35; 1 Cor. 9:25.

The neuter plural without the article signifies "all things severally," e.g., John 1:3; 1 Cor. 2:10; preceded by the article it denotes "all things," as constituting a whole, e.g., Rom. 11:36; 1 Cor. 8:6; Eph. 3:9. See EVERY, Note (1), WHOLE.

"Therefore as by the offence of the one judgement came upon pa'▀ (all) mankind to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon pa'▀ (all) mankind unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience the mass (poluv▀) of mankind were constituted sinners, so too by the obedience of one will the mass (poluv▀) of mankind be constituted righteous
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Old 06-16-2009, 07:11 PM
 
Location: NC
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Last I checked the word "elect" is in God's vocabulary. It doesn't matter if the verse is written to God's elect. It's written about all men. And it's true.
Amen. God bless.
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Old 06-16-2009, 07:13 PM
 
3,580 posts, read 455,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
You are a near calvinist and speak of salvation as a matter of chances?

Ezekiel 16 shows that God wiped out Sodom (dead) and they will be restored and their captivity removed (salvation words) and they will be received as daughters by those with whom God will establish His covenant and also receive.

Revelation 21 shows the Holy City, people outside the City, gates not shut to receive "the glory of the gentiles" which Isaiah 60 depicts as people sitting in darkness coming to the light of the Holy City and entering in.

Revelation 22 shows trees with leaves bearing fruit month after month for the healing of who? Are God's elect still in need of healing? And the Spriit and the Bride say "come!" who are they talking to? God's elect?

Good points ----- It says healing of the nations ---- and the elect have already become the "bride"
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Old 06-16-2009, 07:15 PM
 
1,686 posts, read 2,411,699 times
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Fundy: You were going to explain to us the difference between "only" & "especially. "

Especially=

Only=

"Faithful is this saying and deserving of universal acceptance: and here is the motive of our toiling and wrestling, because we have our hopes fixed on the ever-living God, who is the Saviour of all mankind, and especially of believers [of those who believe). Command this and teach this."
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Old 06-16-2009, 07:18 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,254 posts, read 20,001,723 times
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Birdy give him a few moments to thumb through Chosen for Life: The Case for Divine Election by John Calvin.

Fundy you believe in the wrong JC
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Old 06-16-2009, 07:21 PM
 
1,686 posts, read 2,411,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Oh please scripture says nothing of repentance in the next life. That is pure conjecture
Nonsense!

Phil. 2:10,11

"It is because of this also that God has so highly exalted Him, and has conferred on Him the Name which is supreme above every other name, In order that in the Name of Jesus (so that in adoration of the Name of Jesus) every knee should bow, of beings in the highest heavens, of those on the earth, and of those in the underworld, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

kavmptw = bow=

Used of worshippers.

To bow one's self.

Confess= ejxomologevw

Confess/ profess.

A. To acknowledge openly and joyfully.

B. To celebrate/ to give praise to.

Exomologeo Rooted In oJmologevw
oJmologevw=

To confess/ declare.

A. To profess/ declare openly and freely.

B. To profess one's self the worshipper of one.

C. To praise and celebrate.

In the Name/ Within the Name -Jonathan Mitchell Greek N.T.-

9. For this reason, God also lifts Him up above (highly exalts Him; elevates Him over) and by grace gives to Him (graces on Him) the Name -- the one over and above every name! --

10. to the end that within The Name: Jesus! (or: in the name of {or: belonging to} Jesus), EVERY KNEE -- of the men upon the heavens (of those belonging to the super-heavens) and of the men existing upon the earth and of the men dwelling down under the ground (or: pertaining to subterranean ones) -- may bend (should bow) in worship or prayer,

11. and EVERY TONGUE may speak out the same thing (should openly agree, confess and acclaim) that Jesus Christ Lord <= Yahweh?> -- into glory of Father God (or: unto Father God's reputation)!
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