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Old 06-17-2009, 09:06 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,470,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
I was going to get to that. But there is no point unless you agree those verses take place in the afterlife. So do you think those verses take place in the afterlife?
Honestly I am no expert on Revelations but I have never known Revelations to take place in the afterlife? I know it takes place during tribulation, after tribulation and between the millennium reign; during and a very small part after the millennium rule.

anyway I have to go to work, it was fu. Can't wait to pick up again and than you for being civil
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Old 06-17-2009, 09:07 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,470,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy_56 View Post
Stay off the street, it already has enough problems!
that didn't answer my question and your snarkiness proves nothing but self righteousness, please be civil. What verse is that?
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Old 06-17-2009, 09:20 AM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,567,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Honestly I am no expert on Revelations but I have never known Revelations to take place in the afterlife? I know it takes place during tribulation, after tribulation and between the millennium reign; during and a very small part after the millennium rule.
Ok... whenever it is there is still repentance going on. One only needs to read Isaiah 60 and recognize that these two passages are speaking of the same to see this.
  • Revelation 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. 26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
  • Isaiah 60:11 Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.
The "therefore" in Isaiah 60:11 should flag us to read what precedes it to find out why the gates remain open. The preceding verses has men sitting in darkness, coming to the light of the city and being coverted, entering the city, to further adorn it.
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Old 06-17-2009, 09:26 AM
 
1,686 posts, read 2,413,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
What verse is that? So then everyone believes when I go out on the street right now?
Eph. 1:10

eiV oikonomian tou plhrwmatoV twn kairwn anakefalaiwsasqai ta panta en tw cristw ta epi toiV ouranoiV kai ta epi thV ghV

King James Version

"That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:

American Standard Version

"Unto a dispensation of the fulness of the times, to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say,"

Bible in Basic English

"The ordering of the times when they are complete, so that all things might come to a head in Christ, the things in heaven and the things on the earth; in him, I say,"

Darby's English Translation

"for the administration of the fulness of times; to head up all things in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things upon the earth; in him,"

Douay Rheims

"In the dispensation of the fulness of times, to re-establish all things in Christ, that are in heaven and on earth, in him."

Noah Webster Bible

"That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might collect in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:"

Weymouth New Testament

"for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him."

World English Bible

"to an administration of the fullness of the times, to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things on the earth, in him;"

Young's Literal Translation

"in regard to the dispensation of the fulness of the times, to bring into one the whole in the Christ, both the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth -- in him."

Last edited by Birdy_56; 06-17-2009 at 09:44 AM..
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Old 06-17-2009, 09:28 AM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,567,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
anyway I have to go to work, it was fu. Can't wait to pick up again and than you for being civil
Ditto, I'll pick up again with ya later.
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Old 06-17-2009, 09:34 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,544 posts, read 11,581,022 times
Reputation: 4468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Severe from you have been taught but Calvinism can only go from what they see in scripture and not what they want God to be. God does what He wants and it must give Him the glory, if choosing to save some or all gives Him the glory then who am I to question that.


That being said, I believe we have limited the Atonement to only what man can do instead of what He has done. He saved us out of hell, not from it.

If you ask most believers as to what Christ has done for them, they'll answer, "Jesus died to save me from hell".

Orthodoxy had taught them that Jesus died to pay the penalty for their sins, and that was all they knew. They had no vision of the true purpose of the atonement. "Where there is no vision, the people perish." The word "perish" in the Hebrew means "to make naked".

They had no covering because they had no vision.

They had not an inkling that Christ came to lift them out of their condition of death right here and bring them into a place of walking in His life. The benefits of Christ’s sacrifice are not for when you die so that you will go to heaven and not go to hell. Such a narrow interpretation of Christ’s life and sacrifice leaves His saints with no vision of walking in His life until they become like Him.

These saints are the forerunners - or first fruits - of the harvest to come. Believers today are so near sighted (if they see at all) as to their purpose within the Kingdom.
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Old 06-17-2009, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Germany
1,652 posts, read 1,714,587 times
Reputation: 845
eiV oikonomian tou plhrwmatoV twn kairwn anakefalaiwsasqai ta panta en tw cristw ta epi toiV ouranoiV kai ta epi thV ghV

I often see Greek text not in proper transcription, maybe you could put them in font= symbol?

the right transcription should be

eis oikonomian tou plêrômatos tôn kairôn anakephalaiôsasthai ta panta en tô Christô ta epi tois ouranois kai ta epi tês gês

just a reccomendation

V (capital V) is the 's' at the end of a word in Greek font
w is Omega, ô
h is Eta, ê
q is Theta, th
f is ph
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Old 06-17-2009, 11:00 AM
 
1,686 posts, read 2,413,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
eiV oikonomian tou plhrwmatoV twn kairwn anakefalaiwsasqai ta panta en tw cristw ta epi toiV ouranoiV kai ta epi thV ghV

I often see Greek text not in proper transcription, maybe you could put them in font= symbol?

the right transcription should be

eis oikonomian tou plêrômatos tôn kairôn anakephalaiôsasthai ta panta en tô Christô ta epi tois ouranois kai ta epi tês gês

just a reccomendation
Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus=

eiV oikonomian tou plhrwmatoV twn kairwn anakefalaiwsasqai ta panta en tw cristw ta te en toiV ouranoiV kai ta epi thV ghV

Scrivener 1894 Textus Receptus=

eiV oikonomian tou plhrwmatoV twn kairwn anakefalaiwsasqai ta panta en tw cristw ta te en toiV ouranoiV kai ta epi thV ghV

Byzantine Majority=

eiV oikonomian tou plhrwmatoV twn kairwn anakefalaiwsasqai ta panta en tw cristw ta epi toiV ouranoiV kai ta epi thV ghV

Alexandrian=

eiV oikonomian tou plhrwmatoV twn kairwn anakefalaiwsasqai ta panta en tw cristw ta epi toiV ouranoiV kai ta epi thV ghV

Westcott & Hort=

eiV oikonomian tou plhrwmatoV twn kairwn anakefalaiwsasqai ta panta en tw cristw ta epi toiV ouranoiV kai ta epi thV ghV

Eph. 1:10

eiV oikonomian tou plhrwmatoV twn kairwn anakefalaiwsasqai ta panta en tw cristw ta epi toiV ouranoiV kai ta epi thV ghV


King James Version

"That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:

American Standard Version

"Unto a dispensation of the fulness of the times, to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say,"

Bible in Basic English

"The ordering of the times when they are complete, so that all things might come to a head in Christ, the things in heaven and the things on the earth; in him, I say,"

Darby's English Translation

"for the administration of the fulness of times; to head up all things in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things upon the earth; in him,"

Douay Rheims

"In the dispensation of the fulness of times, to re-establish all things in Christ, that are in heaven and on earth, in him."

Noah Webster Bible

"That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might collect in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:"

Weymouth New Testament

"for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him."

World English Bible

"to an administration of the fullness of the times, to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things on the earth, in him;"

Young's Literal Translation

"in regard to the dispensation of the fulness of the times, to bring into one the whole in the Christ, both the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth -- in him."
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Old 06-17-2009, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Germany
1,652 posts, read 1,714,587 times
Reputation: 845
it's not your fault, but on some pages Greek text is not converted in Greek letters, or when you copy it, it looses its format

I appreciate this source:

Textus Receptus Online! :: Ephesians3seven - "Whereof I was made a minister..."

it should look that way, when you copy from there, the Greek text remains:

εις οικονομιαν του πληρωματος των καιρων ανακεφαλαιωσασθαι τα παντα εν τω χριστω τα τε εν τοις ουρανοις και τα επι της γης

I know it's not that important, but just a tip
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Old 06-17-2009, 11:40 AM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,840,305 times
Reputation: 1323
Quote:
John 3:16"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
All will eventually believe. Scriptures which speak of God sending Jesus for the world cannot be ignored

1 John 2:2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

God bless.
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