Are we really being fair to universalism? (fundamentalist, Earth, interpretation)

[Fundamentalist]

Originally Posted by little elmer

Then what do we do with dispensation through the ages? (Eph 1)

Please expound. I am a literal so I believe in dispensation but what of Ephesians 1?

[ShanaBrown]

Ha this is where you are wrong Shana , according to John Calvin the world means the elect .

You must try better

I guess John Calvin knew more than God does God bless.

[Fundamentalist]

Originally Posted by ShanaBrown

It is very simple and clear, Fundy. Jesus died for all men. 1 John 1:14, He was sent to be the Savior of the world.

*world=kosmos-the sum total of the material universe, the sum total of persons living in the world (Hebrew/Greek Key Word Study)



Colossians 1
15who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,
16because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,
17and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted.
18And himself is the head of the body -- the assembly -- who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead, that he might become in all [things] -- himself -- first,
19because in him it did please all the fulness to tabernacle, 20and through him to reconcile the all things to himself -- having made peace through the blood of his cross -- through him, whether the things upon the earth, whether the things in the heavens.

God's blessings.

What no refute for the interpretation of your verse? just the world means the world? so when I tell my friend, the world is going to bow at his feet because he really put on a great performance, that means every person on the planet?

One problem Shana. The "world" must believe! You still can't get around that

[ShanaBrown]

The world means world here, Fundy, according to the context and according to the definition. If you use your definition and strictly apply it to this verse, then Jesus only died for the elect Gentiles, but you know Jesus died for each and every man. For as in Adam all die, in Christ all will be made alive. Do you not believe that all things were made through Jesus?

Colossians 1
15who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,
16because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,
17and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted.
18And himself is the head of the body -- the assembly -- who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead, that he might become in all [things] -- himself -- first,
19because in him it did please all the fulness to tabernacle, 20and through him to reconcile the all things to himself -- having made peace through the blood of his cross -- through him, whether the things upon the earth, whether the things in the heavens.



Please deny this. God bless.

[Fundamentalist]

Originally Posted by ShanaBrown

The world means world here, Fundy, according to the context and according to the definition. If you use your definition and strictly apply it to this verse, then Jesus only died for the elect Gentiles, but you know Jesus died for each and every man. For as in Adam all die, in Christ all will be made alive. Do you not believe that all things were made through Jesus.? God bless.

but the world must believe Shana so that "limits" the whole world. Adam verse again out of context because people still have to what? repent and believe and only the elect can do this.

[Birdy_56]

Originally Posted by Fundamentalist

John is addressing Jews who are the elect and John is telling them that Jesus is their savior but not just the Jews but the Gentiles as well who are also the elect- which was mind blowing for the Jews to hear because the Jews grew up under a racist program of salvation, that salvation is not only meant for them and their little Jewish "world" but for the rest of the elect all over the world. The world still must believe in order to be saved and the only ones who believe are the elect.

Context people. It's really simple

You gigantic silly!

The whole world=

1 John 2:2 - STR - with Study Tools - Online Study Bible

Vines Exhaustive Dictionary Of N. T. Words

World=

Topic: World

<1,,2889,kosmos>

primarily "order, arrangement, ornament, adornment" (1 Pet. 3:3, see ADORN, B), is used to denote (a) the "earth," e.g., Matt. 13;35; John 21:25; Acts 17:24; Rom. 1:20 (probably here the universe: it had this meaning among the Greeks, owing to the order observable in it); 1 Tim. 6:7; Heb. 4:3; 9:26; (b) the "earth" in contrast with Heaven, 1 John 3:17 (perhaps also Rom. 4:13); (c) by metonymy, the "human race, mankind," e.g., Matt. 5:14; John 1:9 [here "that cometh (RV, 'coming') into the world" is said of Christ, not of "every man;" by His coming into the world He was the light for all men]; 1 John 3:10; 3:16,17 (thrice),19; 4:42, and frequently in Rom. 1 Cor. and 1 John; (d) "Gentiles" as distinguished from Jews, e.g., Rom. 11:12,15, where the meaning is that all who will may be reconciled (cp. 2 Cor. 5:19); (e) the "present condition of human affairs," in alienation from and opposition to God, e.g., John 7:7; 8:23; 14:30; 1 Cor. 2:12; Gal. 4:3; 6:14; Col. 2:8; Jas. 1:27; 1 John 4:5 (thrice); 5:19; (f) the "sum of temporal possessions," Matt. 16:26; 1 Cor. 7:31 (1st part); (g) metaphorically, of the "tongue" as "a world (of iniquity)," Jas. 3:6; expressive of magnitude and variety.

<2,,165,aion>

"an age, a period of time," marked in the NT usage by spiritual or moral characteristics, is sometimes translated "world;" the RV marg. always has "age." The following are details concerning the world in this respect; its cares, Matt. 13:22; its sons, Luke 16:8; 20:34; its rulers, 1 Cor. 2:6,8; its wisdom, 1 Cor. 1:20; 2:6; 3:18, its fashion, Rom. 12:2; its character, Gal. 1:4; its god, 2 Cor. 4:4. The phrase "the end of the world" should be rendered "the end of the age," in most places (see END, A, No. 2); in 1 Cor. 10:11, AV, "the ends (tele) of the world," RV, "the ends of the ages," probably signifies the fulfillment of the Divine purposes concerning the ages in regard to the church [this would come under END, A, No. 1, (c)]. In Heb. 11:3 [lit., "the ages (have been prepared)"] the word indicates all that the successive periods contain; cp. Heb. 1:2. Aion is always to be distinguished from kosmos, even where the two seem to express the same idea, e.g., 1 Cor. 3:18, aion, 1 Cor. 3:19, kosmos; the two are used together in Eph. 2:2, lit., "the age of this world." For a list of phrases containing aion, with their respective meanings, see EVER, B.

3,, 3625,oikoumene

"the inhabited earth" (see EARTH, No. 2), is used (a) of the whole inhabited world, Matt. 24:14; Luke 4:5; 21:26; Rom. 10:18; Heb. 1:6; Rev. 3:10; 16:14; by metonymy, of its inhabitants, Acts 17:31; Rev. 12:9; (b) of the Roman Empire, the world as viewed by the writer or speaker, Luke 2:1; Acts 11:28; 24:5; by metonymy, of its inhabitants, Acts 17:6; 19:27; (c) the inhabited world in a coming age, Heb. 2:5. Notes: (1) In Rev. 13:3, AV, ge, "the earth" (RV), is translated "world."

[pcamps]

Originally Posted by Fundamentalist

What no refute for the interpretation of your verse? just the world means the world? so when I tell my friend, the world is going to bow at his feet because he really put on a great performance, that means every person on the planet?

One problem Shana. The "world" must believe! You still can't get around that

Fundy that is a pathetic analysis . God means what He says he is not vague , or exaggerates what He says , If He said All He means All . . If He means the world (humanity) he means the world (humanity)

[ShanaBrown]

The world will believe, Fundy You see, you must believe in order to confess, profess, proclaim Him. God bless.

[ShanaBrown]

He sees it but He does not want to accept it. But it's okay. God's will will be done. God bless.

[Fundamentalist]

Originally Posted by ShanaBrown

The world will believe, Fundy You see, you must believe in order to confess, profess, proclaim Him. God bless.

You can't believe unless the Father draws you. so why isn't the entire world Christians? so you love greek, study up on the word "draw"