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Old 06-17-2009, 05:28 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,479,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
Hmmmm, please tell the Lord that He did not say something, Fundy, that He was not sent to be the Savior of the world, that He did not give His life as a ransom for all, that all things were not made through Him and for Him, and that it was not the Father's good pleasure to reconcile all to Himself having made peace through the blood of His cross, that He has not been made heir of all. Please tell Him that. God bless, Fundy.


Colossians 1
15who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,
16because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,
17and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted.
18And himself is the head of the body -- the assembly -- who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead, that he might become in all [things] -- himself -- first,
19because in him it did please all the fulness to tabernacle, 20and through him to reconcile the all things to himself -- having made peace through the blood of his cross -- through him, whether the things upon the earth, whether the things in the heavens.



Please deny this. God bless.
I totally agree but "all", "the world" is His elect.
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Old 06-17-2009, 05:30 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,361 posts, read 20,088,142 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Don't need to. You are throwing strawmans by the way. Jesus said, My sheep hear my voice.
You said i do not know what Isiaiah 65 1 was referring to . This is no strawman

It refers to Salvation through faith and not of works and it was a direct hit at Israel's pride and self righteousness who thought in their own heart salvation belong to them alone just like todays Calvinists.
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Old 06-17-2009, 05:30 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,850,737 times
Reputation: 1323
Quote:
I totally agree but "all", "the world" is His elect.
Not in the Colossians 1 passage it doesn't, Fundy. Please read it again, and very carefully with God's help. God bless.



Colossians 1
15who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,
16because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,
17and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted.
18And himself is the head of the body -- the assembly -- who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead, that he might become in all [things] -- himself -- first,
19because in him it did please all the fulness to tabernacle, 20and through him to reconcile the all things to himself -- having made peace through the blood of his cross -- through him, whether the things upon the earth, whether the things in the heavens.



Please deny this.




Yes, Jesus died for His elect. But He is the Savior of all men, especially of believers as Birdy shared with you. He died for all.


19because in him it did please all the fulness to tabernacle, 20and through him to reconcile the all things to himself -- having made peace through the blood of his cross -- through him, whether the things upon the earth, whether the things in the heavens.



God bless.
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Old 06-17-2009, 05:32 PM
 
1,686 posts, read 2,415,282 times
Reputation: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
Hmmmm, please tell the Lord that He did not say something, (John 12:31-32) Fundy, that He was not sent to be the Savior of the world, that He did not give His life as a ransom for all, that all things were not made through Him and for Him, and that it was not the Father's good pleasure to reconcile all to Himself having made peace through the blood of His cross, that He has not been made heir of all. Please tell Him that. God bless, Fundy.


Colossians 1
15who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,
16because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,
17and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted.
18And himself is the head of the body -- the assembly -- who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead, that he might become in all [things] -- himself -- first,
19because in him it did please all the fulness to tabernacle, 20and through him to reconcile the all things to himself -- having made peace through the blood of his cross -- through him, whether the things upon the earth, whether the things in the heavens.

Please deny this. God bless.
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Old 06-17-2009, 05:32 PM
 
257 posts, read 367,898 times
Reputation: 63
Both universalism and preterism are essentially the same. They both are ideals created to ease the dreadful thought that people do have a responsibility for thier actions and that there will be an accounting for ones wrong deeds. I'm not sure what the preterist think about the future, since they seem to say everything is already past. The universalist only see one possible eternal state for all humans, which is directly contradicting what JESUS CHRIST has said. So it seems pointless to discuss nonsense doctrines which cause people to feel good like opium.

I truely hope folks will repent of false doctrines, but only GOD can reveal truth to anyone. We can try to help them, but if they go up in smoke in the lake of fire, they must only blame themselfs. After a milllion years in the lake of fire, they still can only blame themselves.

But after a million years with JESUS, I can only thank Him!
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Old 06-17-2009, 05:35 PM
 
Location: NC
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Quote:
The universalist only see one possible eternal state for all humans, which is directly contradicting what JESUS CHRIST has said.
Please show where. Thanks and God bless.
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Old 06-17-2009, 05:37 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,361 posts, read 20,088,142 times
Reputation: 2114
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForHimByHim View Post
Both universalism and preterism are essentially the same. They both are ideals created to ease the dreadful thought that people do have a responsibility for thier actions and that there will be an accounting for ones wrong deeds. I'm not sure what the preterist think about the future, since they seem to say everything is already past. The universalist only see one possible eternal state for all humans, which is directly contradicting what JESUS CHRIST has said. So it seems pointless to discuss nonsense doctrines which cause people to feel good like opium.

I truely hope folks will repent of false doctrines, but only GOD can reveal truth to anyone. We can try to help them, but if they go up in smoke in the lake of fire, they must only blame themselfs. After a milllion years in the lake of fire, they still can only blame themselves.

But after a million years with JESUS, I can only thank Him!
Well i believe that Jesus is my Lord and Savior that He died for me , that He is not imputing my sin against me and i stand before Him blameless according to the scripture , so where is the ease of the dread you talk about in my testimony.

I also happen to believe He is the savior of the whole world and that He will fulfill His will(desire to save ALL)
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Old 06-17-2009, 05:40 PM
 
1,686 posts, read 2,415,282 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForHimByHim View Post
Both universalism and preterism are essentially the same.
The preterist's are going to be thrilled for this information.

I Believe In The Restitution Of All Things

"Through the Son God made the whole universe, and to the Son he has ordained all creation shall ultimately belong."

"He has made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in heaven and things on earth, to find their one head in Him. And you too, who in Him were made heirs, having been chosen beforehand in accordance with the intention of Him whose might carries out in everything the design of His own will.

Dr. Arthur Tappan Pierson -The Bible & Spiritual Life-

"This view (Restitution of All) is so clearly scriptural that the only surprise is that it has not been more definitely and widely held. It adds immeasurably, both to the glory of Christ as the coming King, and the Father as the former and framer of the ages. It is the period typified by the eighth day of the Mosaic Code: the perfect glory of Christ, reserved for 'the morrow after.' The millennial 'Sabbath.' And while the millenial period is limited to a thousand years, there are no definite limits to this final age of glory."

-Dr. P. B. Fitzwater- (Professor of Systematic Theology- Moody Bible Institute) Christian Theology P. 407

"Then there is the Universalist who declares that the redemption provided by Christ avails for the salvation of all men. This means that what God has done for the salvation of sinful men accrues to the benefit of all men. This view of Universalism is quite widespread. Many leaders in the evangelical church hold to this view, even though they have not dared to declare it."

From the Lutheran ELCA website......

The Christian hope for salvation, whether for the believing few or the unbelieving many, is grounded in the person and meaning of Christ alone, not in the potential of the world's religions to save, nor in the moral seriousness of humanists and people of good will, not even in the good works of pious Christians and church people. ... There is a universalist thrust in the New Testament, particularly in Paul's theology. How else can we read passages such as 'for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ' (1 Cor 15:22)?" (See also Colossians 1:15-20, Ephesians 1:9-10, 1 Corinthians 15:28.) -Carl Braaten-

The universal scope of salvation in Christ ELCA Lutherans will say with Braaten,

"Salvation in the New Testament is what God has done to death in the resurrection of Jesus. Salvation is what God has in store for you and me and the whole world in spite of death, solely on account of the living risen Christ. ... The universal scope of salvation in Christ includes the destiny of our bodies together with the whole earth and the whole of creation. This cosmic hope is based on the promise of eternal life sealed by the resurrection of Jesus from the dead. Through raising Jesus from the dead, God put death to death, overcoming the deadliest enemy of life at loose in the world. This hope for the final salvation of humanity and the eternal universal restitution of all things in heaven and on earth ... is drawn from the unlimited promise of the Gospel and the magnitude of God's grace made known to the world through Christ."

A Survey of Bible Doctrine" by Charles Ryrie, Professor of Systematic Theology: Dallas Theological Seminary.

In the section on future things, he dismisses the Restitution of all things which he refers to as "Classic Universalism" as unbiblical.

However

In his K.J.V. Ryrie Study Bible, which was published a few years after his doctrine book, he says a very interesting thing in his footnote on Colossians 1:20

Col 1:20 .... "to reconcile all things unto himself. Christ is the remedy for alienation from God, and eventually all things will be changed and brought into a unity in Him, even though this will involve judgment."
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Old 06-17-2009, 05:41 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,850,737 times
Reputation: 1323
Quote:
first Jesus IS the saviour of all men,
Not according to Calvinism. The majority has no hope. God is not their Savior. Jesus did not die for them. God bless.
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Old 06-17-2009, 05:41 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,544 posts, read 11,590,353 times
Reputation: 4469
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForHimByHim View Post
Both universalism and preterism are essentially the same. They both are ideals created to ease the dreadful thought that people do have a responsibility for thier actions and that there will be an accounting for ones wrong deeds. I'm not sure what the preterist think about the future, since they seem to say everything is already past. The universalist only see one possible eternal state for all humans, which is directly contradicting what JESUS CHRIST has said. So it seems pointless to discuss nonsense doctrines which cause people to feel good like opium.

I truely hope folks will repent of false doctrines, but only GOD can reveal truth to anyone. We can try to help them, but if they go up in smoke in the lake of fire, they must only blame themselfs. After a milllion years in the lake of fire, they still can only blame themselves.

But after a million years with JESUS, I can only thank Him!
You may not know this, but there are many of us that see the restitution of all things, as well as know that God is not mocked: we will reap what we sow.

But here's the kicker: just as God is not limited to when He can save, He also can crank up the furnace sooner than people see. Hint: we're in the fire now.
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