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Old 06-17-2009, 07:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
not scriptural, if you only based your teachings on your own you will get weird in your theology because the bible is clear there are men given gifts to teach and interpretation through the Holy Spirit, you do not have that gift. Please find a good teacher.
Matthew 23:8
"But be not ye called Rabbi(rhabbi - master/teacher): for one is your Master(kathēgētēs - a master, teacher), even Christ; and all ye are brethren."

The spirit is our teacher ... That is not to say we don't have something to learn from others, but to depend on any single person and their understanding of scripture is to deny the power of the spirit to lead you in truth.
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Germany
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Quote:
not scriptural, if you only based your teachings on your own you will get weird in your theology because the bible is clear there are men given gifts to teach and interpretation through the Holy Spirit, you do not have that gift. Please find a good teacher.
do you think a murderer, which Calvin was one, can be a biblical sound teacher? (1 John 3:15), of course the fact that Calvin was a murderer does not proof his doctrines wrong, but do you think an unrepentent murderer can be a good bible teacher?
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:51 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,566,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
do you think a murderer, which Calvin was one, can be a biblical sound teacher? (1 John 3:15), of course the fact that Calvin was a murderer does not proof his doctrines wrong, but do you think an unrepentent murderer can be a good bible teacher?
The apostle Paul took down a lot of Christians before his conversion - of course a lot of people take offense at his universalist stance.

Which leads to an interesting point - it's those that God has done a deep work of restoration in that see His glory in a different and greater light. I know a lot of people who've had their life brought back from the brink (of which I'm one) and have witnessed the depth of His love and mercy. He can raise the dead!
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Old 06-18-2009, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Germany
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but the apostle Paul murdered nobody after his conversation as Calvin did

Calvin endorsed the murder of Servetus because of doctrinal issues;

But when Peter was come to Antioch, I (=Paul) withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. Galatians 2:11

imagine Paul had endorsed to murder Peter because of doctrinal issues, this would have been very similar to what Calvin actually did.
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Old 06-18-2009, 11:49 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,459,929 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
but the apostle Paul murdered nobody after his conversation as Calvin did

Calvin endorsed the murder of Servetus because of doctrinal issues;

But when Peter was come to Antioch, I (=Paul) withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. Galatians 2:11

imagine Paul had endorsed to murder Peter because of doctrinal issues, this would have been very similar to what Calvin actually did.
Sven I am a black man and I follow some teachings that came from men who either owned slaves or endorsed slavery. Am I to ignore their teaching on the sole basis they did something wrong that they thought was right at the time? I follow scripture, that is it not Calvin. Most of Calvin's interpretations of scripture I agree with and that is why I am a 4 point Calvinist. The question remains, is he preaching the truth?

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 06-18-2009 at 11:57 AM..
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Old 06-18-2009, 12:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Am I to ignore their teaching on the sole basis they did something wrong that they thought was right at the time?

Thought was right??
I believe Calvin did it out of fear.
Inspite of all the things we've done in our past, that Christ has forgiven us for, where do we get the permission to kill over doctrinal issues. Is that Christian. Big difference with Paul. Can't even begin to compare.
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Old 06-18-2009, 12:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Most of Calvin's interpretations of scripture I agree with and that is why I am a 4 point Calvinist.
I’m curious, which point don’t you agree with?
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Old 06-18-2009, 12:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Shawn71 View Post
Thought was right??
I believe Calvin did it out of fear.
Inspite of all the things we've done in our past, that Christ has forgiven us for, where do we get the permission to kill over doctrinal issues. Is that Christian. Big difference with Paul. Can't even begin to compare.
It is easy to point fingers now because we live in a different age but in those days that was the rule of thumb. You were executed for even talking bad about the King (monarchy) what do you think you would get for blaspheming the name of God in a time when the church was closely connected to government. I wouldn't be so quick to talk because today we have gone to the other extreme; we have Christians watching and funding movies that blasphemes God's name and don't even care how their Creator's wonderful, merciful, loving name is used. They say, "no big deal". Non believers 200 years ago were more Christian than most believers today because even they had a much higher view of God. If Christians back then could come to the future and see how God's name is treated by other believers. Which do you think they would choose?

So who is right Shawn?
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Old 06-18-2009, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Germany
1,647 posts, read 1,710,548 times
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Quote:
Sven I am a black man and I follow some teachings that came from men who either owned slaves or endorsed slavery. Am I to ignore their teaching on the sole basis they did something wrong that they thought was right at the time? I follow scripture, that is it not Calvin. Most of Calvin's interpretations of scripture I agree with and that is why I am a 4 point Calvinist. The question remains, is he preaching the truth?
do you think it is possible, that while Calvin's doctrine was right, he himself was none of the elect, but a child of the devil (he endorsed the murder of a Christian), himself predestinated to hell?

Quote:
It is easy to point fingers now because we live in a different age but in those days that was the rule of thumb. You were executed for even talking bad about the King (monarchy) what do you think you would get for blaspheming the name of God in a time when the church was closely connected to government.
this is no reason for a Christian do endorse murder, with the same argument I could claim abortion e.g. or sexual immorality is no sin for Christians as it is common nowadays; that religious persecution was common in Calvin's days, is no excuse for a person who professes to be a Christian to persecute other Christians to death, Calvin was the persecutor and he endorsed the murder of Servetus.

do you believe in double predestination? Luther also taught predestination, but only that the saints are predestinated to heaven, while the unbelievers are not predestinated for hell.

you don't have to be a Calvinist to believe in predestination and election, I do not know where Luther and Calvin differ in detail.
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Old 06-18-2009, 12:17 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,459,929 times
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Originally Posted by Salt & Light View Post
I’m curious, which point don’t you agree with?
Total Depravity

Unconditional Election

Limited Atonement

Irresistible Grace

and not all fully......... but I do believe it is based on scripture.
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