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Old 06-20-2009, 12:20 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,378,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Do you know when you move from faith in His grace to a works based gospel to which we are all guilty of straying to after we become christians, we alienate ourselves from God .
It isn't a 'works-based gospel', for that is not the gospel at all. The good news of Jesus the Christ is that He paid the ultimate price for our sins, by His death. But does it end there? What about repentence? What about the Truth as taught by the Holy Spirit, to which we share with others? Do these in themselves not require 'effort' on our parts? I love it when people say that when we WALK towards His Kingdom to knock on that Door, that it is a works based salvation, when Jesus Himself said:

Mat 24:13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Why endure to the end if the job is already done? Why not just wipe the whole earth out, as we now can, and let the party begin?


Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
We get saved everthing is wonderful we are full of joy because our sins have been forgiven , then all of a sudden the joy and peace is gone because we get entangled with church doctrine and the burden of a works based gospel.
I actually agree with this to a point. We are commanded to do things, even from our King. We are commanded not just to love, but to act and live as though it were Christ living in us. Why? Because when He actually does, then we do. Jesus didn't do a works based salvation, but boy did He ever work. NON STOP, and endured to the very end of the flesh. Yes, religion gets in the way, for it in itself is at odds with God.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Well this is exactly what Paul is saying when he says if you continue in the faith grounded and settled.
Agree but the point above remains the same.

Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
A works based gospel will only produce sin in your life and never give you the peace of God , only a faith based gospel in what He as done for us will give you peace.
No, you are confusing works of the Law, and the work of Jesus's followers. Big difference.

Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Like it or not if you are believing a works based gospel you are alienated in your mind from God and that will produce nothing but carnality.
Same as above. There is no such thing as a works based salvation process, for Jesus IS the ONLY Way. The price was paid for everyone, but not everyone will accept it. Does this mean they get the free ride into His Kingdom?

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven {will enter.}

Unless we call Jesus a liar, then His statement stands FIRM. What is then the Will of the Father? That is between YOU and HIM. Even Peter tried to get in the way of the Will, unknowingly, and was rebuked by the Savior for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
It does not mean and does not say God is alienated from you , it says we alienate ourselves in our mind.
Our actions alienate us. Manifested sin and the ensuing darkness alientates us from Him. Jesus is who reconciled us back to Him by His sacrifice. Again, does everyone accept this gift? No. Some spit on it, even after knowing the Truth.
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Old 06-20-2009, 12:35 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,290 posts, read 20,031,205 times
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You have entirely misunderstood what i have said . The grave error of the church is another gospel the works based one . That is why it as no power .
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Old 06-20-2009, 12:58 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,378,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
You have entirely misunderstood what i have said . The grave error of the church is another gospel the works based one . That is why it as no power .
Sorry for misunderstanding. It is why I kept clarifying it with scripture to back me up, in case it was misunderstood. Help me understand then, if you would.

I personally believe the grave error of the church is ego related. Anytime people put men or women up there in front to teach and preach, then we fall victim to the doctrines to which they themselves profess or were indoctrinated in. Leads to all sorts of heresies.

There is no Power in the church, or even the Church, because we have lost our way. The Power of the Spirit, to do the will of the Father, can only come through a purified vessel, blameless and holy. Even though the vessel, temple, body, or whatever we choose to call it, refuses to walk in that Holiness as brought on us by the Blood of Jesus, we must stand firm in our faith, and try to be Holy, as He is Holy. This is a learning process, graduated into the 'overcomers' we should be. Then, and only then, should we see Power, unlike anything previous generations since the time Jesus walked the earth. Greater than those, as a matter of fact!
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Old 06-21-2009, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
428 posts, read 692,175 times
Reputation: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
God's plans are based on His Word.
Wouldn't it be the other way around? Wouldn't God's Word (what He says) be based on His plans (what He thinks)?
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Old 06-21-2009, 08:13 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,290 posts, read 20,031,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daddythreepointoh View Post
Wouldn't it be the other way around? Wouldn't God's Word (what He says) be based on His plans (what He thinks)?
Of cause !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 06-21-2009, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,468 posts, read 21,232,832 times
Reputation: 17687
The question of the OP asked is " are we were being fair to the Universalists?" I am not a Universalist,(although I do not believe in eternal torture) nor do I proclaim any other label except that of Christian or believer..

However, since I do more listening in these forums than posting I have made one observation about these brothers and sisters that I do wish to pass on and it is this..

I admire the Universalists in this forum because they are united in their belief..I have not seen them attack each other over interpretation of their doctrine, or the salvation plan, or the end times..
They are mostly patient and are very thorough in backing up their thoughts with scripture..

My mom taught me many years ago through her own actions and words this.."Lets give credit where credit is due"
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Old 06-21-2009, 09:16 AM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,833,109 times
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Miss Blue, you are very kind and you have always been patient, and respectful to those that you may disagree with on points of doctrine. I appreciate you as a sister and as a friend. God bless.
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Old 06-21-2009, 04:30 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,209,405 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Blue View Post
The question of the OP asked is " are we were being fair to the Universalists?" I am not a Universalist,(although I do not believe in eternal torture) nor do I proclaim any other label except that of Christian or believer..

However, since I do more listening in these forums than posting I have made one observation about these brothers and sisters that I do wish to pass on and it is this..

I admire the Universalists in this forum because they are united in their belief..I have not seen them attack each other over interpretation of their doctrine, or the salvation plan, or the end times..
They are mostly patient and are very thorough in backing up their thoughts with scripture..

My mom taught me many years ago through her own actions and words this.."Lets give credit where credit is due"
Thank you for your Kind words.

It can be frustrating sometimes when people fail to understand our motivation.

If we err it is on the side of love. For love i am willing to sacrifice even my own soul if need be, as life without love is not worth living. Until the truth about these things was revealed to me, i didn't have the freedom to truly love my enemy. Now i am free to love and pray gods will be done, having certainty and surety in Christ, that in the end God will truly be all in all.
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Old 06-21-2009, 07:09 PM
 
27 posts, read 27,212 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Honestly I am no expert on Revelations but I have never known Revelations to take place in the afterlife? I know it takes place during tribulation, after tribulation and between the millennium reign; during and a very small part after the millennium rule.

anyway I have to go to work, it was fu. Can't wait to pick up again and than you for being civil
Hi. First time posting but I have been reading this forum for a while and just wanted to share one piece of wisdom I have found. I used to be of the fundamentalist view for most of my life and always had several problems with the doctrinal beliefs of the mainline church. Among the several was a few that caused me to never understand my Father in Heaven or His heart.

First, If God is sovereign, why will His will not be accomplished?

"3 for this is ideal and welcome in the sight of our Saviour, God,
4 Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one Mediator of God and mankind, a Man, Christ Jesus,
6 Who is giving Himself a correspondent Ransom for all (the testimony in its own eras) (CLT).

I came to the conclusion that if God wills to do something, He will do it... regardless of what we mere humans say... period.
I guess it all comes down to whether you believe that God is truly sovereign or impotent. I believe that my Father in Heaven is Sovereign over all things in His glorious creation, even the wills of men.

Second, I came to the conclusion that my definition of all is all. I am sure that many would call me heretic but I believe that the Bible is correct when it says all mankind. I find it confusing that people disagree with me and insist that all only means some because God is not sovereign.
Maybe it is just me.....

I have come to find in my life that some of the most insensitive and angry people can sit in the pews next to you should you dare to question their beliefs. Should I ever input anything here in the future, it will be what I have found in my search for God's character, not what I think you should believe based upon what I believe. You all share two things here that are very special, this forum and Jesus Christ. I have seen friendships and even churches destroyed over angry disagreements over theological differences. I just want to caution all here to speak the truth(as you know it) in love and love each other.

Love to you all in Jesus Christ.
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Old 06-21-2009, 07:18 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,209,405 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom-in-Christ View Post
Hi. First time posting but I have been reading this forum for a while and just wanted to share one piece of wisdom I have found. I used to be of the fundamentalist view for most of my life and always had several problems with the doctrinal beliefs of the mainline church. Among the several was a few that caused me to never understand my Father in Heaven or His heart.

First, If God is sovereign, why will His will not be accomplished?

"3 for this is ideal and welcome in the sight of our Saviour, God,
4 Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one Mediator of God and mankind, a Man, Christ Jesus,
6 Who is giving Himself a correspondent Ransom for all (the testimony in its own eras) (CLT).

I came to the conclusion that if God wills to do something, He will do it... regardless of what we mere humans say... period.
I guess it all comes down to whether you believe that God is truly sovereign or impotent. I believe that my Father in Heaven is Sovereign over all things in His glorious creation, even the wills of men.

Second, I came to the conclusion that my definition of all is all. I am sure that many would call me heretic but I believe that the Bible is correct when it says all mankind. I find it confusing that people disagree with me and insist that all only means some because God is not sovereign.
Maybe it is just me.....

I have come to find in my life that some of the most insensitive and angry people can sit in the pews next to you should you dare to question their beliefs. Should I ever input anything here in the future, it will be what I have found in my search for God's character, not what I think you should believe based upon what I believe. You all share two things here that are very special, this forum and Jesus Christ. I have seen friendships and even churches destroyed over angry disagreements over theological differences. I just want to caution all here to speak the truth(as you know it) in love and love each other.

Love to you all in Jesus Christ.
It really excites me to see more and more everyday believers are coming around. Many of us are waking up to the truth ...

welcome friend ...
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