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Old 06-16-2009, 01:43 PM
 
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Something to ponder till I get back. People get so caught with single words in the bible like "the world", "everyone", "all men", "us" etc....but it must qualify in the context it is put in. If I say to my friend, dude everyone is going to think you are crazy, did I mean everyone in the world? or what if I said, the world is bowing at Obama's feet. Really are republicans, racist militant groups etc.... doing so also.

Here is a verse: "If God is for "us", who can be against "us"? Who is us? and who is against us? who is left?

Your taking words out of context and building a doctrine on those words you misinterpret.
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:45 PM
 
3,576 posts, read 439,556 times
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Originally Posted by svenM View Post
I will explain how I see things.

The wages of sin is death, not everlasting torment, death was threatened to Adam and Eve and actually happened. For me death is literal death and not life in seperation from God or something like that.

Jesus died to save men from death, from utter desctruction, the blackest darkness of total annihilation, the idea of annihilation is almost more terrible than the idea of hell for some people.

But since Christianity believes in immortal soul, there is no death any longer, Jesus no longer came to save mortal men from eternal death, but immortal souls from everlasting torment, however the bible does not support this view in my opinion.

I think the idea of universalism has the notion of purgatory for many, but it is not about heaven or hell, but life and death.

men are not saved by purgatory but are brought to repentance by judgment I would say or simply by God's will (just as Paul), Jesus died for all men, he defeated death, I believe there will be punishment on Judgment day, everyone according to his works, that means limited punishment, otherwise Hitler would suffer the same punishment as his victims.

hell is the grave and will deliver it's dead, and death is defeated, but not all are right for the world to come and must be judged and set right.

I hope it makes sense.



I would say, Jesus saved men from eternal death, but men will reap what they saw, as no mortal being can saw infinitely, the harvest must be finite as well.

Thank you Sven - well said (that is how I see it too)
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:47 PM
 
3,576 posts, read 439,556 times
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Originally Posted by Birdy_56 View Post
Dear St. Paul, you would be advised to revise your "garbage."
Yeah exactly
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:47 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,384 posts, read 29,447,487 times
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Originally Posted by Birdy_56 View Post
I knew you were there lover of N.C. Help Fundy out. Does the Scriptures speak of hell more than heaven? How much more eh?

Remember: your search query is not for "eternal hell", just plain old "hell" in all five uses of the Koine and Hebrew?
Yes I am here and I'm not going away. Fundy does not need my help, he's doing just fine because he is listening to God.
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:47 PM
 
1,686 posts, read 2,405,058 times
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Something to ponder till I get back. People get so caught with single words in the bible like "the world", "everyone", "all men", "us" etc....but it must qualify in the context it is put in. If I say to my friend, dude everyone is going to think you are crazy, did I mean everyone in the world? or what if I said, the world is bowing at Obama's feet. Really are republicans, racist militant groups etc.... doing so also.

Here is a verse: "If God is for "us", who can be against "us"? Who is us? and who is against us? who is left?

Your taking words out of context and building a doctrine on those words you misinterpret.
We will be happy to engage you in the context of what all means, and ta pavnte!
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:48 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,418,121 times
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Originally Posted by Birdy_56 View Post
I knew you were there lover of N.C. Help Fundy out. Does the Scriptures speak of hell more than heaven? How much more eh?

Remember: your search query is not for "eternal hell", just plain old "hell" in all five uses of the Koine and Hebrew?
I meant Jesus, sorry.
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:48 PM
 
Location: East Coast
29,887 posts, read 19,848,305 times
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Something to ponder till I get back. People get so caught with single words in the bible like "the world", "everyone", "all men", "us" etc....but it must qualify in the context it is put in. If I say to my friend, dude everyone is going to think you are crazy, did I mean everyone in the world? or what if I said, the world is bowing at Obama's feet. Really are republicans, racist militant groups etc.... doing so also.

Here is a verse: "If God is for "us", who can be against "us"? Who is us? and who is against us? who is left?
Fundy God means what He says unlike how you and the dude talk to each other .This comment also suprises me that you used such carnal reasoning , i mean how can you compare how you and the dude talk to each as God as spoken to us ?
Gods words are not empty words .
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:49 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,778,891 times
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Yes I am a Calvinist. grew up as a Pentecostal. I don't believe Jesus came to save every human being, scripture does not support it.
Hi Fundy,

1 John 4

13We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world..

This means that He died for all people. You, me, and every person are included in this.


Ephesians 1

19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross

This includes everyone.


Timothy 2
1 I exhort therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, thanksgivings, be made for all men;
2 for kings and all that are in high place; that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and gravity.
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 who would have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus,
6who gave himself a ransom for all; the testimony to be borne in its own times;


He gave Himself as a ransom for all He died for all people.

Do you believe that God deliberately created the mass of humanity specifically for the purpose of burning in an everlasting hell since there would be no hope for their salvation?

God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 06-16-2009 at 02:00 PM..
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:50 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,541 posts, read 11,514,014 times
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Something to ponder till I get back. People get so caught with single words in the bible like "the world", "everyone", "all men", "us" etc....but it must qualify in the context it is put in. If I say to my friend, dude everyone is going to think you are crazy, did I mean everyone in the world? or what if I said, the world is bowing at Obama's feet. Really are republicans, racist militant groups etc.... doing so also.

Here is a verse: "If God is for "us", who can be against "us"? Who is us? and who is against us? who is left?
"Pulling scripture" is one thing, and absolute truth is another. Is it wrong to declare that "none can resist Him", and His will is that "all men be saved"?

Or is that too simplistic?

Sovereignty proclaims that indeed He can do whatsoever He chooses, and it's within those parameters that we must bow and concede that none of us can position ourselves as watchman of the truth, for I doubt any of us could wholly handle the Truth.
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Yes I am here and I'm not going away. Fundy does not need my help, he's doing just fine because he is listening to God.
It reminds me of the fellow who was driving irresponsible with his car with a sign on the bumper regarding God being the co-pilot. Yep, you better let Him ride with us, you are going to kill Him.
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