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Old 06-16-2009, 02:53 PM
 
1,686 posts, read 1,763,267 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I meant Jesus, sorry.
Changes nothing at all. Does Jesus Christ the Saviour of all mankind speak of hell more than heaven? How much more? Forget about Paul, we know how many times he speaks of gehenna, or hell in general.
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Old 06-16-2009, 03:00 PM
 
1,143 posts, read 944,265 times
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@ Fundamentalist, at least you can't accuse universalists to do the slightest harm, as your god has already predestinated who goes to heaven and who goes to hell, no teaching would change it, no single action would change anything, I having almost become a Muslim can understand this fatalism, though I can't share such views longer.

this was used as an argument against universalism, why refute heretics if all are saved? but what about you being a Calvinist, why refute heretics if everything is a done deal? why preaching the gospel, why even posting here, everything must be a done deal in your opinion.

Last edited by svenM; 06-16-2009 at 03:11 PM..
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Old 06-16-2009, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Hot-Houston Texas
20,050 posts, read 21,055,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
@ Fundamentalist, at least you can't accuse universalists to do the slightest harm, as your god has already predestinated who goes to heaven and who goes to hell, no teaching would change it.

this was used as an argument against universalism, why refute heretics if all are saved? but what about you being a Calvinist, why refute heretics if everything is a done deal? why preaching the gospel, why even posting here, everything is a done deal in your opinion.
Yes universalism is harmful. Anytime Scripture is twisted and misrepresented harm is done.
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Old 06-16-2009, 03:06 PM
 
Location: RI
19,392 posts, read 9,525,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
@ Fundamentalist, at least you can't accuse universalists to do the slightest harm, as your god has already predestinated who goes to heaven and who goes to hell, no teaching would change it.

this was used as an argument against universalism, why refute heretics if all are saved? but what about you being a Calvinist, why refute heretics if everything is a done deal? why preaching the gospel, why even posting here, everything is a done deal in your opinion.
Exactly

This is Fundy's second epiphany in recent weeks and like the other is being proved to be false.

Sorry Fundy
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Old 06-16-2009, 03:08 PM
 
Location: RI
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Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Yes universalism is harmful. Anytime Scripture is twisted and misrepresented harm is done.
There is something far worse than twisting scripture and that is twisting God's character , which usually comes from twisted scripture
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Old 06-16-2009, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Hot-Houston Texas
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Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
There is something far worse than twisting scripture and that is twisting God's character , which usually comes from twisted scripture
And universalism does both.
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Old 06-16-2009, 03:10 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
for every man, yes, but they must believe. You can't get around that they must qualify.
And they qualify after they have been brought to their knees by judgement.

You think that repentance is limited to this lifetime only - what scripture says that? The richman and lazarus parable?

Believing means you are saved from wrath - if you don't believe and repent of your wicked deeds you suffer wrath.

Read the Psalm that SvenM posted

Psalm 107:10-21 (Rotherham's Emphasized)

The dwellers in darkness and death-shade, bound with oppression and iron; Because they had rebelled against the sayings of GOD, - and, the counsel of the Most High, they had spurned; And he bowed down, with labour, their heart, They staggered, with no one to help, Then made they outcry to Yahweh in their peril, Out of their distresses, he saved them; He brought them forth out of darkness and death-shade, and, their fetters, he tare off. Let them give thanks to Yahweh for his lovingkindness, and for his wonderful dealings with the sons of men! For he brake in pieces the doors of bronze, And, the bars of iron, he hewed asunder. The perverse, by reason of their transgression, and on account of their iniquities, are afflicted; All manner of food, their soul abhorreth, and so they draw near unto the gates of death, Then make they outcry to Yahweh in their peril, and, out of their distresses, he saveth them. He sendeth his word, and healeth them, and delivereth them from their graves. Let them give thanks to Yahweh for his lovingkindness, and for his wonderful dealings with the sons of men! Yea let them sacrifice the sacrifices of thanksgiving, and recount his works with a shout.
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Old 06-16-2009, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Little Elm, TX
6,950 posts, read 7,358,880 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Yes universalism is harmful. Anytime Scripture is twisted and misrepresented harm is done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
There is something far worse than twisting scripture and that is twisting God's character , which usually comes from twisted scripture
Indeed - as long as universalists proclaim Jesus as the only way to the Father, and glorify God MUCH MORE than the "he doesn't want you to go to hell, but you will" crap.

I'm done.
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Old 06-16-2009, 03:13 PM
 
Location: RI
19,392 posts, read 9,525,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
And universalism does both.
Telling the world that God is not imputing their sin against them is twisting is character ???????

And believing God is going to send people to fry in ovens that make Hitlers look like kinder garden stuff isn't ?????
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Old 06-16-2009, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Hot-Houston Texas
20,050 posts, read 21,055,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Telling the world that God is not imputing their sin against them is twisting is character ???????

And believing God is going to send people to fry in ovens that make Hitlers look like kinder garden stuff isn't ?????
God is not going to send anyone to hell, they will be sending themselves, because they made the wrong choice and rejected Him. Telling the world that everyone will be reconciled is twisting Scripture and the character of God.
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