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some say, people go to hell because they did reject Christ's sacrifice; according to your opinion, Christ died only for the elect, what is then the sin of the unelect not to believe in Christ's sacrifice, if He actually did not die for them? For what reason are they sent to hell?
It is easy to point fingers now because we live in a different age but in those days that was the rule of thumb. You were executed for even talking bad about the King (monarchy) what do you think you would get for blaspheming the name of God in a time when the church was closely connected to government. I wouldn't be so quick to talk because today we have gone to the other extreme; we have Christians watching and funding movies that blasphemes God's name and don't even care how their Creator's wonderful, merciful, loving name is used. They say, "no big deal". Non believers 200 years ago were more Christian than most believers today because even they had a much higher view of God. If Christians back then could come to the future and see how God's name is treated by other believers. Which do you think they would choose?
So who is right Shawn?
'rule of thumb'??, it is in direct conflict with the nature of our Lord. Over what, a christian who viewed the Godhead in light of Isaiah 9:6. Christ never gave the order for believers to kill over differences in views. anyone see a problem with this. I'd be ashamed to call myself a john calvinist, even if I shared a view with him. Your taking it lightly.
And Christians who fund some movies....???what does that have to do with me and what I believe. I'm not funding movies. I don't know those people. Are you talking about TBN or something? I can't even believe we're talking about this. Funding a messed up movie doesn't compare to killing over views and I'm sorry but chalking it up to 'the times' is silly.
some say, people go to hell because they did reject Christ's sacrifice; according to your opinion, Christ died only for the elect, what is then the sin of the unelect not to believe in Christ's sacrifice, if He actually did not die for them? For what reason are they sent to hell?
Christ did die for ALL, but some are going to reject Him, that is the unforgivable sin, rejecting Christ.
Christ did die for ALL, but some are going to reject Him, that is the unforgivable sin, rejecting Christ.
Isn't it rejecting the Holy Spirit?
Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
My understanding is that when Jesus said this world that was reference to the Old conenant age and the world to come is the present age we are in - ages have beginnings and endings.
Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
My understanding is that when Jesus said this world that was reference to the Old conenant age and the world to come is the present age we are in - ages have beginnings and endings.
Some may suffer the penalty or consequences of sin. After the consequences are done, he or she is set free from it. The wages if sin is death, not everlasting hell. And death, the last enemy, will be made of no effect. (1 Cor. 15) Death is not permanent or everlasting. God bless.
Matthew 12: 31Because of this I say to you, all sin and evil speaking shall be forgiven to men, but the evil speaking of the Spirit shall not be forgiven to men. 32And whoever may speak a word against the Son of Man it shall be forgiven to him, but whoever may speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age, nor in that which is coming. (YLT)
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 06-18-2009 at 08:23 PM..
Some may suffer the penalty or consequences of sin. After the consequences are done, he or she is set free from it. The wages if sin is death, not everlasting hell. And death, the last enemy, will be made of no effect. (1 Cor. 15) Death is not permanent or everlasting. God bless.
Matthew 12: 31Because of this I say to you, all sin and evil speaking shall be forgiven to men, but the evil speaking of the Spirit shall not be forgiven to men. 32And whoever may speak a word against the Son of Man it shall be forgiven to him, but whoever may speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age, nor in that which is coming. (YLT)
Thank you Shana,
Yes - I believe that too - being forgiven means not to pay the penalty - if you speak against the Spirit you pay the consequences of it (the penalty is not eternal torment or eternal death)
Rather than reading through 34 pages of posts I'll just jump in and say I don't get the Calvinistic doctrine at all. To believe in Calvinism is to disregard TONS of Scriptures that say, quite clearly, that Jesus died for ALL, not just the elect.
In addition, the Calvinistic god is a pretty mean and heartless one.
Of course the Calvinistic response to THAT would be that I'm out of place to judge God and I should just be happy that He has chosen me.
My response to that is that I'm not judging God, but rather the Calvinistic god of hate that Calvinists love in their own warped way. I say warped because if your idea of true love comes from the Calvinistic god then your idea of what love truly is is badly distorted.
Amen....ILNC!!
John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
Christ did die for ALL, but some are going to reject Him, that is the unforgivable sin, rejecting Christ.
but you believe Christ died in vain for the most, however I asked fundamentalist.
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