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Paul the apostle, one of the main instruments of God in writing the New Testament, understood that if Jesus never did what He said He did, then let's eat, drink, and go crazy, for tommorrow we die.
Then nothing does matter and I might as well party up. Your brief blink of an eye moment of being such a "nice guy" is a waste anyway, because then we're all just going to disappear and everything is forgotten and meaningless anyhow, so what's the point of being nice for such a brief time? All my great works and deeds of kindness will be forgotten and gone in what, 100 years, if I even live that long? And what's 100 years compared to eternal nonexistence? There's no point.
Party hearty, and live it up if Jesus is a liar. Even one of the apostles of Christianity understood that much.
But since Jesus is not a liar, then I know He did what He said He did in saving my soul, and now I am so thankful to Him that I want to do good. If you think that you are "good" merely for the sake of being in your own definition of "good", why bother? For who, and for what? For a vapor of time in which someone might say what a nice guy you are? What a waste....
It's interesting to note, that the believer is kept from becoming a total raving antisocial maniac by the fact that Jesus died and rose again to deliver us from such pointless and harmful lifestyles. But for the unbeliever, the Bible says God uses the threat of police and lifetime imprisonment to keep the unbeliever from becoming a total raving antisocial maniac.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowXOR
And that is exactly the reason I find this all so ridiculous (in my eyes). Personally, I can't help but be a good person (I KNOW I am) no matter what, I just am. But from the above I don't really have to be, since I'm going to hell anyway I might as well live it up and just live life all for myself cheating everyone around me just to get myself ahead.
But I wouldn't do that, so I guess I will just continue being kind and good for no reason, even though it is getting me nowhere.
Last edited by MG1; 04-14-2007 at 08:36 PM..
04-14-2007, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ
Shadow isn't a Christian and isn't a he. She said she is agnostic. Christianity is very specific.
I am agnostic, correct.
But I'm actually a guy, not sure why you thought I was a girl!
Shadow isn't a Christian and isn't a he. She said she is agnostic. Christianity is very specific. You can't be an agnostic and be a Christian. Being Christian requires belief in Jesus as the messiah and as believing he martyred himself on the cross.
I'm surprised at your anger--first of all, I wasn't aware that only certain people were allowed to answer certain questions, and that anything else must go to PM.
Second of all, yes, in the Christian tradition, you must believe that Jesus died for your sins, etc. in order to get in.
Third, you didn't mention that in your comments; you said if Shadow asked God for forgiveness she would get into heaven.
ETA: I called it the Jesus "story" because if I had called it the Jesus "myth" I figured people would freak out. I wasn't banking on people freaking out anyway. I really didn't know how else to put it.
Ok, first off...here is a quote from Shadow (my bad, HE/SHE...either way Shadow is pretty awesome regardless of sex, religion etc.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowXOR
Why did I dedicate my life to it for years without questioning it and not "feel" it as you do. I prayed every night, went to church, was at a Christian school. I dedicated myself completely.
And as I said, Christians never have an answer to this question. I'm just sorry to see people wasting their life away on something that probably doesn't even exist, and if it does, not in the way that they believe.
That is from another post! I know SHE was a former Christian, therefore she knows about Christianity...end of that subject
Sorry I got angry, I'm tired and have a lot going on at the moment...sorry, I know I'm a "Christian" and yet I am letting my HUMAN side come out whoa Seriously, sorry to come across angry...I also had another post to you from another thread where you was talking about a father molesting his child and both of them being sinners etc. The server (on my end) temporarily went down and I lost my reply. At this point, it was too long and I am not about to redo it now...lol sorry! Anyway, look up Leviticus 18:6-18; Leviticus 20:11; Leviticus 20:12; Leviticus 20:17; Leviticus 20:19-21; Deuteronomy 22:30; Deuteronomy 27:20-23. There is plenty of info you can fidn there as far as incest etc. As far as there not being an explanation for each and every commandment, well...God gave us common sense...that's what it's for!
YES, one MUST recognize Jesus to be saved...However, Shadow (as I quoted as being a "former Christian") knows where I am coming from. Yes, yo must believe in Jesus, however we also believe that Jesus IS GOD in human form. There is God the Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Ghost the Spirit...They make up the Trinity, however, THEY are all in ONE!
Sorry to have gotten short tempered...just tired!
04-14-2007, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MG1
Then nothing does matter and I might as well party up. Your brief blink of an eye moment of being such a "nice guy" is a waste anyway, because then we're all just going to disappear and everything is forgotten and meaningless anyhow, so what's the point of being nice for such a brief time? All my great works and deeds of kindness will be forgotten and gone in what, 100 years, if I even live that long? And what's 100 years compared to eternal nonexistence? There's no point.
I do what I do because I believe it is right and I can make other peoples lives better and enjoy my own. I don't need the promise of an eternal heaven to be a good person. You may find it a waste but I doubt the people that I have helped find it a waste, and I surely do not.
I have to question the perfection of this God in the first place. If he were perfect, how could he have created people to be so imperfect? I mean, freedom of choice is one thing. This degree of imperfection--where the person would be shunned from God's eyes altogether...well, let's just say if THAT was in fact God's plan and he didn't make a mistake, well then, I just don't know what motivated him. Who would want to create anything with that devastating a potential?
If the answer is "He wouldn't...he didn't know how badly people would sin," then again, he isn't perfect. Surely a perfect being would be able to foresee such a thing.
Yes He did foresee such a thing: Ephes 1:4-5 "Long ago even before He made the world God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes. His unchanging plan has always been to adopt us into His own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. And this gave Him great pleasure."
We are not saved because we deserve it but because God is gracious and freely give salvation. He know we would need a savior so He sent us Jesus.
Your brief blink of an eye moment of being such a "nice guy" is a waste anyway, because then we're all just going to disappear and everything is forgotten and meaningless anyhow, so what's the point of being nice for such a brief time?
I don't think this is always the point. I mean...many people just don't want to be bad...period. Not "for" anyone else or for any other reason that we don't want to cheat on our spouses, we don't want to kill anyone or rape anyone and we don't want to steal from anyone. The urge just isn't there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MG1
It's interesting to note, that the believer is kept from becoming a total raving antisocial maniac by the fact that Jesus died and rose again to deliver us from such pointless and harmful lifestyles. But for the unbeliever, the Bible says God uses the threat of police and lifetime imprisonment to keep the unbeliever from becoming a total raving antisocial maniac.
This sounds good in theory, but there are plenty and then some of people professing to be Christian who are in fact in jail today. I think whether it's god or jail, both are instruments put in place to keep people from becoming, as you called it, a total raving antisocial maniac.
But the bottom line is that you're not an antisocial personality unless, well, you are one (chemically/pathologically). People don't generally "become" antisocial personalities (true antisocial--as in sociopath) when strictures are loosened. True sociopaths don't care about God OR jail--they still go on rampages and still go to jail. It's a pathological condition.
But I'm actually a guy, not sure why you thought I was a girl!
You are agnostic, but were once at least "trying" to be a Christian years ago correct? Did you get the reply this was all referring to in the first place? lol
04-14-2007, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawgpz550
You are agnostic, but were once at least "trying" to be a Christian years ago correct? Did you get the reply this was all referring to in the first place? lol
Yes, I was a Christian for well over a decade.
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She said she is agnostic. Christianity is very specific.
Seriously, sorry to come across angry...I also had another post to you from another thread where you was talking about a father molesting his child and both of them being sinners etc. The server (on my end) temporarily went down and I lost my reply. At this point, it was too long and I am not about to redo it now...lol sorry! Anyway, look up Leviticus 18:6-18; Leviticus 20:11; Leviticus 20:12; Leviticus 20:17; Leviticus 20:19-21; Deuteronomy 22:30; Deuteronomy 27:20-23. There is plenty of info you can fidn there as far as incest etc. As far as there not being an explanation for each and every commandment, well...God gave us common sense...that's what it's for!
