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Old 06-19-2009, 02:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
True but they must believe and repent right?
Yes.
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Old 06-19-2009, 02:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
Yes.
I have some questions, if I am a Christian and you are as well then why isn't everybody? they heard the gospel just like you and I and yet they are not Christian, what separates us from those who don't receive Him and why doesn't God just make everyone believe like He did us?
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Old 06-19-2009, 02:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I have a question, if I am a Christian and you are as well then why isn't everybody? they heard the gospel just like you and I and yet they are not Christian, what separates us from those who don't receive Him and why doesn't God just make everyone believe like He did us?
imo the ultimate reason some see the truth and others do not is "Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see..."

As to why God does it like this, I can not read God's mind. But I have some thoughts.

The gospel in brief is:
  • Genesis 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
This seed is not "Jewish people". This seed is a spiritual seed. We see in the NT that this seed is first and foremost Christ. But the seed is also those of faith in Christ who are born of His spirit. God could have just made everyone believers from the get go, but instead God chose for this seed to multiply from one to few to many.

1. Christ
2. Few
3. Many
  • Genesis 16:10 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
  • Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
It seems to me that God chooses the small, the weak, the few in number to confound the strong, mighty, proud, many in number -- precisely to prove that it is by the power and grace of God and not by the strength of His servants that victory is won over Satan's seed.

I think we get a glimpse of this in God's choosing the smallest of peoples, Israel, who are a type of us.
  • Deuteronmy 7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. 7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
  • Joshua 23:10 One man of you shall chase a thousand: for the LORD your God, he it is that fighteth for you, as he hath promised you.
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Old 06-19-2009, 03:16 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,464,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
imo the ultimate reason some see the truth and others do not is "Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see..."

As to why God does it like this, I can not read God's mind. But I have some thoughts.

The gospel in brief is:
  • Genesis 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
This seed is not "Jewish people". This seed is a spiritual seed. We see in the NT that this seed is first and foremost Christ. But the seed is also those of faith in Christ who are born of His spirit. God could have just made everyone believers from the get go, but instead God chose for this seed to multiply from one to few to many.

1. Christ
2. Few
3. Many
  • Genesis 16:10 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
  • Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
It seems to me that God chooses the small, the weak, the few in number to confound the strong, mighty, proud, many in number -- precisely to prove that it is by the power and grace of God and not by the strength of His servants that victory is won over Satan's seed.

I think we get a glimpse of this in God's choosing the smallest of peoples, Israel, who are a type of us.
  • Deuteronmy 7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. 7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
  • Joshua 23:10 One man of you shall chase a thousand: for the LORD your God, he it is that fighteth for you, as he hath promised you.
Interesting theory but I don't see the connection as to the verses you pointed out imo does not have anything to do with salvation but I am trying get to the individual; you believe in the "elect"? what are their duties if any?
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Old 06-19-2009, 03:20 PM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,566,988 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Interesting theory but I don't see the connection as to the verses you pointed out imo does not have anything to do with salvation but I am trying get to the individual; you believe in the "elect"? what are their duties if any?
If you understand that you are the Seed of Abraham if and only if you are Christ's then the multiplying of the Seed is salvation of the lost.

The duty of the elect is to live as Christ lived, to be a light to the rest of mankind who sits in darkness, and thus to lead people to Christ.
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Old 06-19-2009, 03:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
If you understand that you are the Seed of Abraham if and only if you are Christ's then the multiplying of the Seed is salvation of the lost.

The duty of the elect is to live as Christ lived, to be a light to the rest of mankind who sits in darkness, and thus to lead people to Christ.
Can't disagree there but I believe we do know why some sit in darkness. I don't believe it is a mystery or why they won't repent and believe.
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Old 06-19-2009, 03:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Can't disagree there but I believe we do know why some sit in darkness. I don't believe it is a mystery or why they won't repent and believe.
I don't say it is a mystery why people don't repent. The mystery is why God does not bring someone to repentance sooner than He does. Whether you believe all will be saved or few will be saved God chooses the timing and it is sometimes later rather than sooner. If you point to unsaved person X as some kind of evidence that God won't save all, I can point to another person Y who was unsaved that God saved later.
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Old 06-19-2009, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
not true
Extremely true. Unfortunately.
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Old 06-19-2009, 03:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Can't disagree there....
I notice you couldn't disagree with the part you bolded. But you did not bold the part where I said "If you understand that you are the Seed of Abraham if and only if you are Christ's then the multiplying of the Seed is salvation of the lost." Do you not believe that those who are Christ's and only those who are Christ's are Abraham's Seed?
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Old 06-19-2009, 03:38 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,464,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
I notice you couldn't disagree with the part you bolded. But you did not bold the part where I said "If you understand that you are the Seed of Abraham if and only if you are Christ's then the multiplying of the Seed is salvation of the lost." Do you not believe that those who are Christ's and only those who are Christ's are Abraham's Seed?
Oh no I agree. Father Abraham had many sons and I am one of them and so are you
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