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Old 06-21-2009, 09:44 AM
 
Location: The A
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Predestination
acts 4:


27For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, 28For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

The proper biblical definition/answer for Gods foreknowledge is founded right here in acts 15:

18Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

Its not knowing the actions of others [though that is true since He decreed them] but knowing His works. Its knowing and having determined from eternity...Yes they were known by Him as future, as what would be, which became so by His determination of them, as for the reason or cause why they would be, is because He determined they should be, this is true to the degree that what will be [future] has already been..

ecc 3:

15That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; [In Gods eternal purpose] and God requireth that which is past.

Its settled, its done

This is true because it was done and settled in Gods eternal purpose, which cannot be regulated by time as we know it..

hence, Gods predestination and foreknowledge is not contingent upon God looking in the future and foreseeing what choices His creatures will make, but the opposite, our choices that we make are contingent upon what God determined they would be and how they would concur with His Eternal purpose. So in Gods persepective, future choices that men will make in the time state, had been already made in the Divine decree/purpose before time..

Thats why peter preaches acts 2:

23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

acts 4:


27For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, 28For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

For it cant be made more plainer by the apostle that men do what God determined for them to do or to be done..clearly this is an apostle doctrine..acts 2:

42And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers

And it would be foolish to suppose that Gods predestination was not a doctrine or teaching of the apostles with what peter had been preaching..

We know predestination was a heavy theme with the Apostle peter and with paul..

rom 8:

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called [to belief]: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

eph 1:

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

So we have here a candid definition of the origin of predestination, its not according to God looking into the future and seeing choices made by men, like if they will believe or repent and ect..but according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things [in providence in time] after the counsel of His own will..

Thats the defintion and origin of predestination Gods own eternal will..

The word predestinate is the greek word:

proorizō which is defined:
) to predetermine, decide beforehand
2) in the NT of God decreeing from eternity
3) to foreordain, appoint beforehand

The word is used here in 1 cor 2:

But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

or: we speak the wisdom of God [gospel] in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom which God predestinated before the world began unto our Glory..

In none of the biblical examples where the word or its derivative is being used, to foreview the choices and actions of men for its cause, that is a doctrine of the antichrist and his followers..

Here is the english definition of predestinate:
  1. Theology To predestine.
  2. Archaic To destine or determine in advance; foreordain.
Foreordained; predestined.

So again, no clue whatsoever of the satanic inspired defintion of being predestined based upon the forseen actions of people..

to determine in advance is what our english says, and thats pretty even stevens with the biblical usage of the word and truth of predestination, men want to take what belongeth to God, and credit it unto man in some kind of way..

For Gods own will is the etenal cause of predestination..
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Old 06-22-2009, 01:44 AM
 
Location: The A
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Default The Providence of God

The providence of God, which is His rule of the universe, the world, according to the counsel of His own will eph 1:

11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

james 1:

18Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

dan 4:

35And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

For God does everything or[ what all is being done] is according to His own Divine Will, or what He has determined in His own Mind.

Job 23:

13But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.

14For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

Things are appointed for each of us..some of us have been by God appointed to wrath and some to salvation..1 thess 5:

For God hath not appointed us[the beloved of the Lord] to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

and so quite conversly, since paul tells us some are not appointed to wrath, then some must be appointed to wrath..

But Job peronalized Gods appointment in his life, and so did the Godly David ps 57:

2I will cry unto God most high; unto God that performeth all things for me.

The ESV says it like this:

2I cry out to God Most High,
to God who fulfills his purpose for me.

David again ps 138:

8The LORD will perfect that which concerneth me: thy mercy, O LORD, endureth for ever: forsake not the works of thine own hands.

again the ESV:

8The LORD will fulfill his purpose for me;
your steadfast love, O LORD, endures forever.
Do not forsake the work of your hands.

Notice that David calls himself the works of Gods hand..and what did james preach about Gods works ? acts 15:

18Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

Paul to speaks to this fashion phil 1:

6Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

See all these verses talking about God performing or Gods own will ? Not freewill and all that devil talk, but God performing His eternal purpose in providence, minute to the individuals life..

Now to highlight a very important point, and that is, that men or people in general do, make choices, decisions, according to what God has already determined, though from mere appearance, it seems we are making our own decisions and choices apart from Divine control...But to dispel of that misconception and to set the record straight, lets look at some scripture:

jer 10:

23O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

prov 16:

A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

prov 19:

21There are many devices [imaginations/thoughts]in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand.

The thinking process is being determined by Gods purpose..thats deep..

prov 21:

The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

The word heart is the hebrew word:

leb and one of its primary meanings is:

inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding

inclination, resolution, determination (of will)

So, this could read, the Kings determination of will, is in the Hand of the LORD, and He turneth it [heart/determination of will] withersoever He will..

This is a killer to the free willers, because this verse plainly tells us that mans will is goverened by the HAND of JEHOVAH..and if this true of a King, Royalty, One who is in great power and the Authority, and gives orders Himself, if Geat Monarchs hearts are in the Hand of the LORD, even moreso, the average man or person in the world..

Hand means power or strength.. remember Jehovahs dealing with pharoah, and He said he was going to harden pharoahs heart ? Pharoah the King..well paul states later in his epistle that God made His Power known in him [pharoah]..notice:

rom 9:
17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

God showed His power by hardening pharoahs heart, or softening it, whenever He wanted to, for the kings heart was in the Hand or strength or power of the Lord, and He was goverening it according to His will..

Prov 20:

24Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

This word goings or steps means mens actions or behaviour is of the LORD

This is deep isnt it..may God bless His True people to see this truth, for His enemies are decreed to reject it..

All of these scriptures will give the true christian [those born of God] a sure foundation in knowing that all the steps, deliberations, movements, thoughts, actions ect, that we make and anyone else, are under the complete direction and control of Gods predestination..One may ask, well how complte is Gods predestination control ? My reply would be to refer you back to the word of God jer 10 23 and prov 16 9..hence whenever steps or goings are made, they are directed by the LORD..That is His predestination..

This is a extremely difficult pill of truth to swallow, because of all the evil and sin in our lives and the world, the natural mind will reject this great truth, but those who are truly born of God, shall find comfort and peace in the same..
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Old 06-22-2009, 03:34 AM
 
Location: East Coast
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I was into to the Branham stuff in the 1980's , there's no doubt God used him , but he left his calling from preaching to teaching , and his followers are just as much a denomination as the rest are that he spoke against.
You Branhamites hang onto every single word he said and all is books are versed unabridged as if it's the very word of God .
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Old 06-22-2009, 05:02 AM
 
Location: Wilmington, NC
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Never heard of this Branham fellow until you mentioned his name. I don't get out much. Read his wikipedia article and he is interesting to study but then I find Edgar Casey (sp?) interesting to study.

So Pcamps, what turned you away from Branham? Save me some research time. And who, if anyone do you follow now?

I have to say that I have not seen one I would call Eiljah yet but like I said, I don't get out much and I am so hard headed when it comes to accepting anyone's particular doctrine of biblical interpretation. I do however believe we are on the cusp of birth pains and I expect to see things get worse over time with periods of calm and normalcy occuring between the "hard" times.
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Old 06-22-2009, 06:52 AM
 
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Predestination is biblical.

(Ephesians 1:4)
4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 06-22-2009 at 07:14 AM..
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Old 06-22-2009, 10:51 AM
 
Location: The A
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Default Nothing by chance with God

Nothing by chance with God
There is nothing that comes by chance with God, nothing occurs without His Knowledge, without His Decree of permission, i.e 1 thess 2:

18Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.

Paul says satan hindered us, lets not get it wrong here though, satan is able to hinder as much only as its already determined in Gods predetrmined plan and decree..

So continuing my thought, nothing, and i mean nothing is done without it being of His determination, everything , even the most minute, respecting all creatures from a gorilla to a fruit fly, and what is done in this world by any human being, in all stages of time, nothing is done save by His predestination or appointment..

There is a time fixed by the purpose of God for each individual

Lets look at ecc 3:


1To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: 2A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

Job 14 5
5Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;

our days are determined, how many months we will live, what month we would be born in, and die in [save raptured first], along with the year and place..

For God had appointed our bounds of habitation acts 17:

26And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

This is fascinating, while the elect were yet in adam, back in the garden, all this had been determined and appointed where we would live and die in our futures, having not yet been born..

Also what is determined by the purpose of God, not only our birth physically is appointed by God and His purpose, but also our birth spiritually is appointed by the eternal purpose of God..not only is our death [to die] physically appointed by God, but our death to sin and being made alive to God is according to His purpose and predestination..

Paul says He was born out of due season 1 cor 15:

8And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

paul as any elect, has no control over when God will give them newbirth..Do you think paul knew he would be born again while traveling the road to damascus ? No he did not, but it was time for him to be born..in that regard..and so it is with all who are born of the spirit..
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Old 06-23-2009, 05:54 AM
 
Location: Wilmington, NC
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Well, I wonder what God has planned for me to do today? Not that I would want to be contrary to His will but do I really have a choice if predestination is absolute?
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Old 06-23-2009, 05:59 AM
 
Location: Nowhere'sville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uneekarts View Post
Well, I wonder what God has planned for me to do today? Not that I would want to be contrary to His will but do I really have a choice if predestination is absolute?
Good point! Makes me wonder if I never totally got into church or "felt" god's presence because I wasn't predestined....that's nice.
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Old 06-23-2009, 06:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uneekarts View Post
Well, I wonder what God has planned for me to do today? Not that I would want to be contrary to His will but do I really have a choice if predestination is absolute?
Predestination is about salvation not whether if you turn right instead of left in your car.
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Old 06-23-2009, 06:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniMae1 View Post
Good point! Makes me wonder if I never totally got into church or "felt" god's presence because I wasn't predestined....that's nice.
Salvation is not about free will because if God left the choice to us then none of us would go to heaven because none of us would choose Him.

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 06-23-2009 at 07:29 AM..
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