U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-26-2009, 02:19 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 3,364,909 times
Reputation: 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueberry View Post
Nice deflection, but I didn't say that. Nor can you find a post of mine that hints at it. I do, however, reject the doctrine of reconciliation for all.

It's no deflection, it is the reasonable conclusion based on the word context and how you used it. You can reject anything based on a context your willing to accept, simple as that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-26-2009, 02:21 PM
 
6,209 posts, read 3,824,415 times
Reputation: 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
It's no deflection, it is the reasonable conclusion based on the word context and how you used it. You can reject anything based on a context your willing to accept, simple as that.

The carnal mind will bend to extremes to believe what it wants.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2009, 02:29 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 3,364,909 times
Reputation: 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
The carnal mind will bend to extremes to believe what it wants.

Yes, something everyone contends with in their own walk. My point is that I do not accuse anyone of "being out of context" I simply say what context I will accept and perhaps consider others along the way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2009, 03:27 PM
 
Location: land of quail, bunnies, and red tail hawks
1,463 posts, read 2,171,744 times
Reputation: 3372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
It's no deflection, it is the reasonable conclusion based on the word context and how you used it.
Not, it's not reasonable. Lamentations 3 doesn't talk about eternal hell, and I did not mention it. You assumed that was my stance since I said the chapter doesn't support universal reconciliation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
You can reject anything based on a context your willing to accept, simple as that. . . .Yes, something everyone contends with in their own walk. My point is that I do not accuse anyone of "being out of context" I simply say what context I will accept and perhaps consider others along the way.
So, according to this line of thinking, one is free to make God's Word say anything he/she wants. Context is fluid, according to you.

Silly me! I didn't realize context was something I could accept or reject at my discretion. I guess Bible scholars have been wrong all along about the importance of correct exegesis.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2009, 03:43 PM
 
Location: land of quail, bunnies, and red tail hawks
1,463 posts, read 2,171,744 times
Reputation: 3372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
Ezekiel 16 which I provided in my earlier post is an example of God collecting (not overlooking or forgiving) a debt that was finite. They paid the debt but not forever.
Ezekiel 16 is talking about Jerusalem, with whom God had a covenant relationship. It's also talking about a corporate entity, not individuals.

It's a far stretch to apply the same principles to unbelievers, with whom God does not have a covenant relationship.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2009, 04:25 PM
 
6,238 posts, read 4,846,388 times
Reputation: 1694
Quote:
this is why I asked you to read that stuff and tell me your impression (this is a serious request,
I will sven, please give me a day or so--I want to really study it before I make a comment.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2009, 05:28 PM
 
1,491 posts, read 899,978 times
Reputation: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueberry View Post
Ezekiel 16 is talking about Jerusalem, with whom God had a covenant relationship. It's also talking about a corporate entity, not individuals.

It's a far stretch to apply the same principles to unbelievers, with whom God does not have a covenant relationship.
I disagree with some of your points, but that is not really germane to my original point which was more about the meaning of "forgiving" vs "not forgiving" than it was about any principle. Lamentations 3 shows that not forgiving a sin does not imply an infinite debt. So does the parable in Matthew 18, specifically when the man said "Pay me that thou owest" he was not forgiving his servant right after his Lord had forgiven him by not collecting his debt. Forgiving and not forgiving are not determined by the size of the debt. They are determine by whether or not the debt is collected.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2009, 06:20 PM
 
3,552 posts, read 2,891,354 times
Reputation: 570
This is getting almost rediculous. These verses are as plain as plain can be, written so that an infant can read them. Here they are for those who haven't actually read them.

Mat 12:31
"Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the to come.


Mar 3:28
Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation


Luk 12:8"
And I say to you, everyone who confesses Me before men, the Son of Man will confess him also before the angels of God but he who denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God. And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him.


Could this be the same as:?

1Jo 5:16
If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not to death, he shall ask and will for him give life to those who commit sin not to death. There is a sin to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not to death.

We should know that this death John is talking about is NOT a physical death. For ALL know that the wages of sin is death in the physical realm. But John is telling us that there is a sin that leads to another type of death. What could this be? How about what our King warned us about.

When it says that it WILL NOT be forgiven, should we not just take this at His Word's of warning? Should we be careful on how we speak, especially to one another, because to blaspheme the Spirit, could be as simple as speaking ill of a person through whom the Spirit is speaking. At least this is how I took what Jesus said in Luke. But hey, that's just me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2009, 06:53 PM
 
1,491 posts, read 899,978 times
Reputation: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
When it says that it WILL NOT be forgiven, should we not just take this at His Word's of warning?
Yes, it will not be forgiven, but we shouldn't read unlimited punishment into "not forgiven".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2009, 06:59 PM
 
3,552 posts, read 2,891,354 times
Reputation: 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
Yes, it will not be forgiven, but we shouldn't read unlimited punishment into "not forgiven".

I don't as I do not believe in ET, or UR, but rather those who do not make it as just being 'gone'.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top