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Old 06-30-2009, 03:56 AM
 
10,219 posts, read 4,850,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
You keep bumping this up! Are just going around looking to debate or what? Are you trying to convince yourself this is true, instead of seeking the Truth out from He who gives it?

I don't get it.
Well I am curious what the ETers do think about this. After all, they keep bringing up the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit as some sort of trump card against God saving all mankind.

No need for me to convince myself if this is true. I already know it is.
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Old 06-30-2009, 04:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
It is often brought up by sincere Christians that if one commits the unforgiveable sin
that they therefore cannot be saved and thus, God cannot save all mankind.
But is this the case? Let us look at the facts.

There is no need for the Universalist to twist scripture to get God to save all.

Let us look at the time frame our Blessed Lord puts on this sin:

Matthew 12:31-32 CLV Therefore I am saying to you, Every sin and
blasphemy shall be pardoned men, yet the blasphemy of the spirit shall
not be pardoned." (32) And whosoever may be saying a word against
the Son of Mankind, it will be pardoned him, yet whoever may be saying
aught against the holy spirit, it shall not be pardoned him, neither in
this eon nor in that [eon] which is impending."


Mark 3:28-30 CLV Verily, I am saying to you that all shall be pardoned
the sons of mankind, the penalties of the sins and the blasphemies,
whatsoever they should be blaspheming, (29) yet whoever should be
blaspheming against the holy spirit is having no pardon for the eon, but is
liable to the eonian penalty for the sin-" (30) for they said, "An unclean
spirit has he."

One thing is certain, the person who committs this sin is not being pardoned for the eon
or the eon which is to come and in fact is liable to the eonian penalty which is the penalty
pertaining to the eons or ages.

The reason the Concordant Literal Version uses "pardon" here is because a pardon is
given by a high executive such as a governor or king. Even in our day if a person is in prison
and gets pardoned, he is released. If he is not pardoned then he is liable to fulfill the
remainder of his time until his release.
Thus it is with the unpardonable sin. It just will not be pardoned. It will not be pardoned in this eon/age
or the eon/age which is impending. So the person who committs this sin must do the full time for the crime.

So God can and will still save all mankind.

Oh, one more thing: these same sincere Christians who really want to honor God by believing
what He says really do believe: "Every sin and
blasphemy shall be pardoned men." I don't know of anyone who has committed this sin.
The hooker down the street or the whino. Every sin they committed will be pardoned. Christ said it.
I'm glad the sincere Christian believes it.
Scripture indicates that most of the world is lost. And that is why the Bible states many are called yet (FEW ARE CHOSEN). Wide is the gate broad is the way that leads to destruction (and many there be) that go in there at. Yet narrow is the way that leads to eternal life, (AND FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT). Your spin on Scripture requires you to ignore the obvious.
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Old 06-30-2009, 09:47 AM
 
10,219 posts, read 4,850,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
You keep bumping this up! Are just going around looking to debate or what? Are you trying to convince yourself this is true, instead of seeking the Truth out from He who gives it?

I don't get it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Scripture indicates that most of the world is lost. And that is why the Bible states many are called yet (FEW ARE CHOSEN). Wide is the gate broad is the way that leads to destruction (and many there be) that go in there at. Yet narrow is the way that leads to eternal life, (AND FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT). Your spin on Scripture requires you to ignore the obvious.
Your homework, should you decide, is to find out exactly what Christians who believe 1 Timothy 2:4-6 and 4:10,11 believe concerning the chosen, and the broad and narrow way and see how we do not ignore the obvious.

Would you want me to explain these things to you while you search it out?
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Old 06-30-2009, 10:08 AM
 
6,209 posts, read 3,833,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Scripture indicates that most of the world is lost.
Agreed. But scripture also states that Jesus came to save the lost. Not just some of the lost. But all the lost.

Quote:
And that is why the Bible states many are called yet (FEW ARE CHOSEN). Wide is the gate broad is the way that leads to destruction (and many there be) that go in there at. Yet narrow is the way that leads to eternal life, (AND FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT). Your spin on Scripture requires you to ignore the obvious.
Yes many are called but few are chosen. The question is WHAT are they chosen for?

Yes many will go onto destruction. But is that the end for them? Can God not "undestroy" something?

What about God's message of reconcilliation for all? What about God's plan to unify all things under one head? What about God's grace that has come forth for the deliverance of all sins and eternal salvation of all mankind?
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Old 06-30-2009, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Wichita,Kansas
2,732 posts, read 4,235,829 times
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I did a post on this a few months ago.
My understanding of the unforgiveable sin is that you would have to claim..
Something that God/Holy Spirit has done is actually the work of the devil.
Example: they accused Jesus of doing this when he performed Miracles.
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Old 06-30-2009, 06:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Agreed. But scripture also states that Jesus came to save the lost. Not just some of the lost. But all the lost.


Yes many are called but few are chosen. The question is WHAT are they chosen for?

Yes many will go onto destruction. But is that the end for them? Can God not "undestroy" something?

What about God's message of reconcilliation for all? What about God's plan to unify all things under one head? What about God's grace that has come forth for the deliverance of all sins and eternal salvation of all mankind?
Whosoever (will believe in Him) will be saved. Yet Scripture clearly shows us, the world would not believe. You can spin it anyway you like, yet Scripture cannot be changed. Yes, God offers reconcilliation to all, yet it's obvious. God's offer of reconcilliation will be rejected by the world.
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Old 06-30-2009, 06:47 PM
 
Location: NC
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Hi, it was God's good pleasure to reconcile all to Himself. (Col. 1) He accomplishes all His good pleasure. (Isaish 46) All will return to Him. (Psalm 22) God bless.


Psalms 66
4. "All the earth will worship You,
And will sing praises to You;
They will sing praises to Your name." Selah
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Old 06-30-2009, 09:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
Hi, it was God's good pleasure to reconcile all to Himself. (Col. 1) He accomplishes all His good pleasure. (Isaish 46) All will return to Him. (Psalm 22) God bless.


Psalms 66
4. "All the earth will worship You,
And will sing praises to You;
They will sing praises to Your name." Selah
Psalms 66:4 is a prophecy of the future. And it will be fulfilled after the second coming of Jesus Christ. And it will then be a world that is filled with Christian believers.

As for the others, the Bible tells us.

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment (RISES FOR EVER AND EVER). There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."
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Old 06-30-2009, 10:27 PM
 
Location: NC
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The world will become Christian believers, so it will be filled with Christian believers, I agree. God bless.


11and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages; and they have no rest day and night, who are bowing before the beast and his image, also if any doth receive the mark of his name. (YLT)
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Old 07-01-2009, 07:21 AM
 
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Dear Campbell34,
Let's get back to the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit first then we can tackle these side issues.

First of all, there is no reason for the Christian Universalist to twist or ignore the results of that blasphemy. We really do believe they won't receive a pardon for that crime. The result of the sentence such criminals receive will be for this eon/age and the impending eon/age. The impending age is the millennium. So they miss out on the glorious millennial age.

Then there is the new earth age and then the consummation. It is at the consummation when all are saved.

I think part of the problem you are having is with the terms "for ever and ever" as evidenced by your post from Revelation. If "for ever" is eternal, then how can something get beyond one eternity for there to be another "ever"?

"For ever and ever" is really, in the Greek, "into the eons of the eons." They are plural eons in the genetive case showing possession "of".

So the smoke of their torment ascends "for the eons which are the greatest of the eons before." That is what "for the eons of the eons" means.

As far as "narrow is the way and few there be that find it" that was the case prior to Christ's death. And that was under the law.

As far as "as many as believe" you are correct. During this eon/age God is saving just so many by faith. This does not in any way preclude the rest from coming later on.

For instance, if you believe just believers will ever get saved then who are the believers heading up in the Christ "both that in the heavens and that on the earth" (Eph.1:10) since they are heading up those outside of their group?

Likewise the believer is reconciled NOW (Col.1:21)
Col 1:21 And you, being once estranged and enemies in comprehension, by wicked acts, yet now He reconciles."

The rest of all who are at enmity to God will be reconciled later (Col.1:20).

What do you think of this?

Peace,
Eusebius
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