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Old 06-26-2009, 10:30 PM
 
Location: The A
1,876 posts, read 1,367,524 times
Reputation: 46

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Matt 28:

19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

This passage has been misunderstood by the millions, and yes even i at one time misunderstood this passage.

Many today as i once did, believe this passage is referencing water baptism, but i am here to tell you that its not..

Its actually a teaching baptism, a submerging of the Truthes of the Gospel, The Plan and Purpose of salvation..

The disciples were to overwhelm their converts with the plan of salvation, The teachings of the Covenant of Grace, a compact in eternity past, between the Three Divine Persons, Father, Son [Word], and Holy Ghost, in which each person agreed [1 jn 5:7] to their role in the Salvation of the elect..

This is intimated on how peter begins his first epistle 1 pet 1:

1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Each Person is made mention of as it regards the elect..

God had given the apostles an hearing audience, and they were to faithfully feed the sheep and lambs of God, with the word of Grace..for this is what would build them up..
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Old 06-27-2009, 12:13 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
221 posts, read 233,982 times
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You do agree, though, that this is the way a person becomes a Christian. Right?
I've been praying Matthew off and on and I don't think that I misunderstood
the formula (kind of a mathematical/scientific word) for baptism, for becoming
Christ's own, for becoming washed clean of sin...a fresh start again on the road to
salvation.

Right before that which you quoted:
The eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had ordered them. When they saw him, they worshiped, but they doubted. The Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go, therefore, and make disciples....."

Yes, Jesus was teaching. And if you'd want to call it a "teaching baptism" that sounds good, too.
Today, we'd call it Baptism 101, the first lesson in making other Christians.

I don't think the disciples were to overwhelm anyone. This word implies forcing one's self.
The Gospel itself, though, is a lot to take in all at once and does get overwhelming, meaning
almost too much to bear.

And I worry about your definition of "elect." I'm wondering if you use this in a narrow sense.
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Old 06-27-2009, 06:04 AM
 
Location: Nowhere'sville
2,345 posts, read 2,606,106 times
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Now wait a minute...I thought baptize meant to fully submerge in water...how is that misunderstood?

Oh and this is the one that Oness churches use to "prove" that baptism the trinity way is wrong. (your not saved any way but by this!) Silly. I always used to say "So Jesus spoke in riddles?" They didn't like that.
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Old 06-27-2009, 08:58 AM
 
Location: The A
1,876 posts, read 1,367,524 times
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Quote:
Now wait a minute...I thought baptize meant to fully submerge in water
Thats what you thought, but i am talking about matt 28: 19, 20..in the text there, baptism is being submerged in teaching..says nothing about water..but teaching it does ..

There are scriptures that state the word is water..eph 5:

26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
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Old 06-27-2009, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
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Is your point then, that we are to baptize in water in the name of Jesus only? Or is it that Jesus did not teach water baptism?
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Old 06-27-2009, 10:40 AM
 
Location: The A
1,876 posts, read 1,367,524 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
Is your point then, that we are to baptize in water in the name of Jesus only? Or is it that Jesus did not teach water baptism?
My point is what i posted in the OP, what are you talking about..i am not talking about water baptism PERIOD..
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Old 06-27-2009, 10:48 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 2,948,089 times
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The Holy Spirit teaches, not the men,,,they just inform the 'Good News', the rest is up to the Spirit to finish, Baptizing them in the FIRE!
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Old 06-27-2009, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
221 posts, read 233,982 times
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I think I see now what you are talking about, beloved 57.

You are saying (please correct me if I'm not with you on this):
In reader's minds, they subconsciously put a little word "and" into verse 19.
"teach all nations,(and) baptizing them..."
So they've been thinking all this time that it is like two, separate things.

You are saying: This passage is reading like an appositive or like a definition
"teach all nations, (which means) baptizing them" So the water thing really should be
a talking/learning/teaching thing...in this particular passage. No water.
One thing.

I think you may have something here. However, to teach CAN BE also ACTION....
all at the same time! The teaching/talking/learning/verbal thing CAN BE also the water action thing.

Instead of totally discounting the water action of baptism, here, maybe you could be broadening
the whole passage to include more meaning, like that of teaching.
For instance:
Graduation.
A person receives their diploma from the chancellor. The act of graduating.
The earning of the credits is also graduating. The change in a person's life is
also graduating. Graduation is more than just being handed a little scroll.
It means so much more.

Plenty of things happen during a baptism...it is a sacrament, afterall. God's hand is in on
the whole thing and when that happens mystery and miracle mix with reality and with future hope ...and it is just the most indescribable event, too extraordinary for
any kind of description. Hey, our limited language can't
come close to what is all happening. It is, as you correctly say, overwhelming!

A person being baptized can only come to understand the fullness of it over time,
over years, even learning more after being ushered through the final door.

Once baptized, the person is NEVER the same. Baptism is tons more than the water thing
that is for sure.
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Old 06-27-2009, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,529 posts, read 2,602,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
My point is what i posted in the OP, what are you talking about..i am not talking about water baptism PERIOD..
Ok, I'm sorry. I guess I missed your point, which is why I asked questions.

So you're saying that you believe that verse has nothing to do with water baptism, but that it just means you are to baptize by teaching, correct?

I guess the reason I'm confused at your post is, what difference does it make if one believes it means baptize by the teachings, or by water? We're commanded in other places to do both, teach and baptize with water. Does believing this verse means to baptize with water affect your salvation in any way?

Do you see what I'm saying? I'm just wondering what the point would be to teach others that this verse is talking about baptizing with teaching, not with water.

I'm not even saying you're wrong, I would have to study it further. Just saying that even if you're right, it doesn't change anything really.
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Old 06-27-2009, 12:12 PM
 
Location: The A
1,876 posts, read 1,367,524 times
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Quote:
So you're saying that you believe that verse has nothing to do with water baptism
Yes thats what I said in the OP..didnt you see it ? I typed it clear as i could..
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