U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-02-2009, 02:18 PM
 
469 posts, read 689,385 times
Reputation: 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvvarkansas View Post
Hmm. When the woman who was caught in adultery was brought before Jesus, He wrote something in the dirt that they could all understand, and that made them all go away. And do the names Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, James, and Peter ring any bells?

Hmm. When over 99% of the people walking around in the time of Jesus did not know how to read, I assume they miraculously learned how to read in a jiffy. However, it is very likely that what appear to be script it might have been some sort of symbol or drawing that most people could understand. You must also realize that script is water down communication method. Even language has its shortcoming; nothing can take the place of the sheer experience of the moment. How can anyone express the sensation, the emotion, the joy and ecstasy one feels when sitting near the stage at a Rolling Stone concert? Script and language will always come out short.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-02-2009, 03:38 PM
 
1,139 posts, read 976,476 times
Reputation: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShalomPeace View Post
Quote us the specific scripture verses.
We're not here to debate Catholic Doctrines, if you want to discuss those, open another thread, and I will be happy to discuss them with you. But for the sake of staying on topic, lets stay On Sola Scriptura

Quote:
If the 1.1billion Catholics worldwide have embraced your religion with no questions whatsoever, trusting and believing in your "one true church", "infallible" popes and church fathers that handed down your teachings and traditions, why would Christians/Protestants have to defend our belief in Sola Scriptura, or for that matter, why would Buddhists have to defend their Buddhist beliefs, why would Hindus have to defend their Hindu Holy books, why would Muslims have to defend their Quran ......
Not sure why you are bringing up other religions....Not making the connection.

And you have to defend Sola Scriptura, because it was you (well not you personally) that changed the status quo after 1500 years or so. I'm not asking for you to defend the bible, It is perfect, and not in question, The defense is need for ONLY using the bible.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-02-2009, 08:57 PM
 
173 posts, read 196,964 times
Reputation: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNick View Post
We're not here to debate Catholic Doctrines, if you want to discuss those, open another thread, and I will be happy to discuss them with you.
Actually I need not open another thread. The internet alone speaks volume about Catholicism being a sinister, false religion. As a matter of fact, I need not even surf long and hard, all I need is just about 5 minutes, oh wait.. make it 1 minute, bingo ... there you have it .. all about Catholicism. Actually it's seems harder for me to check out really good stuff about Catholicism than the bad stuff !!! ... figure that !!!!




Quote:
Originally Posted by DNick View Post
Not sure why you are bringing up other religions....Not making the connection.
I'm trying to say that nobody has to feel the obligation to defend for what they believe in regardless of religious background.

If you ask a Buddhist, Hindu or Muslim, probably they'd say that they believe in their religions because it's hereditary or family tradition - they believe whatever their parents believed, well most of them anyway ....

I believe it's pretty much the same with Catholics - you believe whatever your parents, ancestors, church fathers per se passed down to you, don't you? .... with no questions asked !!


Quote:
Originally Posted by DNick View Post
And you have to defend Sola Scriptura, because it was you (well not you personally) that changed the status quo after 1500 years or so. I'm not asking for you to defend the bible, It is perfect, and not in question, The defense is need for ONLY using the bible.
Well I haven't lived that long - 1500 years or so - to know exactly what had been changed. Perhaps it was changed because the pagan-contaminated religion no longer conformed with the Bible.

All I know is that, as an ex-Catholic, and now a bible-believing Christian, the Word has spoken to me loud and clear, alive and active, just as it says in Hebrews 4:12 , now more than any other time. I've had tangible experiences with God, I've heard God's audible voice, seen His hand (literally), and have seen angels and demons (yes, with my pure naked eyes). Never before have I encountered anything like that. Why would someone like me have to venerate Mary, pray to dead saints and angels or pray the rosary, just a name a few Traditions (with capital c) ??? The Sola Scriptura alone works darn well for me!! ... Now that's cool, if you ask me !!!




However having said that, I must add that not all Christians have had such experiences. I admit many follow the religion blindly. Understand that Christianity is a fast-growing religion, especially in my Asian country, and I believe in Asia generally. Most are actually new converts, from Buddhism, Hinduism or Taoism, and believe it or not, in my country, and in my church, we even have several Muslim converts who are serving fervently in various ministeries.

If you ask them, and other born-again Christians why they believe in the Sola Scriptura, they probably wouldn't have an answer. Christians live by testmonies for the sheer glory of the Lord. Yes, testimonies is what bring glory to the Father.

John 14:13
And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father.

John 15:8
This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.


We have many Sola Scriptura-believing churches in my country that are witnessing countless number of healings, deliverance and miracles in our churches week after week, EXACTLY what Jesus Himself and His disciples demonstrated all over the NT - healings of incurable diseases, casting out of demons and miracles. However as much as I hate to have to say this, I cannot say the same about the Catholic churches, we don't even see a small fraction of what we see in our Protestant churches!!

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-02-2009, 09:48 PM
 
1,890 posts, read 2,480,531 times
Reputation: 1442
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjester View Post
Hmm. When over 99% of the people walking around in the time of Jesus did not know how to read, I assume they miraculously learned how to read in a jiffy. .
If you give any credence to the Bible at all, then you will realize that Jesus knew how to read (can anyone tell me how we know this?), and so did at least Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, and James....and they also could write (can anyone tell me how we know this?). If you don't give any credence to the Bible, then there is no use talking to you on this subject.

Your "statistics" are pretty meaningless. Anyone can spout numbers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-02-2009, 10:08 PM
 
2,548 posts, read 3,471,533 times
Reputation: 900
Here is some biblical evidence of why we venerate Mary. It is written by a former protestant

“Catholic Christianity recognizes and venerates the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Immaculate Mother of God, as the exemplar of what redeemed humanity will one day be: the forerunner, the quintessential Christian and symbol of the Church itself, our Spiritual Mother and Queen of Heaven, who was spared by God’s grace the curse of death and immediately received her glorious resurrected body after her earthly sojourn had come to an end. And that’s why we and others have fulfilled the prophecy that Mary gave concerning herself
...…..from now on, all generations will call me blessed (Luke 1:48b)

And why is she blessed?

For the Mighty One has done great things for me, and Holy is His name. (Luke 1:49
Mary is always glorifying God the Father and Jesus, never herself, for this is her purpose and calling. All of the Marian doctrines are Christocentric. They were promulgated in the first place so that Jesus Christ would be glorified, not Mary. And this is why Catholics have venerated her above all creatures and why any Christian can indeed “relate to” and “identify with” her, because she glorifies and imitates God and that is what all serious Christians want to do (and are commanded to do) too.”

“This was God’s marvelous plan—to involve a creature and a woman at every step of the way, so as to achieve a certain –“balance”—if I may properly speak in such a way. Eve brought down the human race, acting with Adam; Mary helped to raise it, acting in concert with Jesus Christ, her Son, the second Adam (as Paul describes Him). If Satan could cause the fall of the human race through the frailty of Woman and Man, why is it not plausible that God could in turn bring about the Redemption of the human race in part through the Immaculate Conception, the Second Eve, the Theotokos? To me it makes eminent sense. It is contrary to neither Scripture nor to common sense nor reason.

“There is no necessary reason – a priori—for thinking that God couldn’t or wouldn’t have done such a thing…..Nothing in these concepts is contrary to Scripture or Tradition.”

“God clearly uses human beings as mediators. We pray for each other. Paul speaks of “having saved some” in the process of his ministry. Moses interceded and “atoned” for the Jews and God decided not to destroy them, etc.”

“….it is nothing so unbelievable or extraordinary that God chose to involve Mary in the Redemption of mankind and the distribution of graces. God can do whatever He wants!”

These quotes are taken from the book, More Biblical Evidence for Catholicism by Dave Armstrong.

Last edited by Okiegirlfriend; 07-02-2009 at 10:16 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-02-2009, 11:13 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 2,298,298 times
Reputation: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvvarkansas View Post
(can anyone tell me how we know this?), .
at the start of his preaching he opened a book at read from it to people...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-02-2009, 11:42 PM
 
173 posts, read 196,964 times
Reputation: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShalomPeace View Post

We have many Sola Scriptura-believing churches in my country that are witnessing countless number of healings, deliverance and miracles in our churches week after week, EXACTLY what Jesus Himself and His disciples demonstrated all over the NT - healings of incurable diseases, casting out of demons and miracles. However as much as I hate to have to say this, I cannot say the same about the Catholic churches, we don't even see a small fraction of what we see in our Protestant churches!!


To add :-


John 4:39-48
Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman's testimony, "He told me everything I ever did." So when the Samaritans came to him, they urged him to stay with them, and he stayed two days. And because of his words many more became believers.

They said to the woman, "We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world."
After the two days he left for Galilee. (Now Jesus himself had pointed out that a prophet has no honor in his own country.) When he arrived in Galilee, the Galileans welcomed him. They had seen all that he had done in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, for they also had been there.

Once more he visited Cana in Galilee, where he had turned the water into wine. And there was a certain royal official whose son lay sick at Capernaum. When this man heard that Jesus had arrived in Galilee from Judea, he went to him and begged him to come and heal his son, who was close to death. "Unless you people see miraculous signs and wonders," Jesus told him, "you will never believe."


Did you hear that?

John 4:48
"Unless you people see miraculous signs and wonders," Jesus told him, "you will never believe."


God is showing up BIG TIME in Protestant churches - the place where SOLA SCRIPTURA is embraced - the place where people are believing because they are witnessing first-hand accounts of miraculous signs and wonders .....

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-03-2009, 12:07 AM
 
173 posts, read 196,964 times
Reputation: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjester View Post
Scripture means text or writing, such as a book, bible comes from biblos meaning book. Around the time of Christ only the cream of the cream knew how to read. Less than one percent of the people were literate. Actually even 100 hundred years ago in the US less than 10 percent new how to read. But tradition has always been around. Ideas and thoughts were diffused by the word of mouth and by reciting long memorized stories. Jesus never wrote anything and his disciples being poor ignorant peasants probably didn’t know how to write either. If Jesus wanted to put a lot of emphasis on the written word he would have chosen rich and educated disciples.

Exodus 24:4 - “Moses then wrote down everything the LORD had said. “

Exodus 34:27 - “Then the LORD said to Moses, "Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel."

Numbers 33:2 - “At the LORD's command Moses recorded the stages in their journey. “

John 10:35
If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken

John 5:46
Jesus said ... For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me.

Matthew 15:6 ; Mark 7:13
Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition.


Now that hardly sounds like illiterate people to me !!


Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-03-2009, 12:26 AM
 
3,067 posts, read 2,298,298 times
Reputation: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShalomPeace View Post
Now that hardly sounds like illiterate people to me !!

Well, the boys all could read.
They had to show they could do this just to be able to join in their adult faith life.

But the girls?
Did the Jews push the girls to read?

Not so much...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-03-2009, 12:03 PM
 
1,890 posts, read 2,480,531 times
Reputation: 1442
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
at the start of his preaching he opened a book at read from it to people...
*ding!* Correct!

Scripture reference: Luke 4:16 - "So He came to Nazareth, [[a]that Nazareth] where He had been brought up, and He entered the synagogue, as was His custom on the Sabbath day. And He stood up to read." - Amplified Bible
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:03 AM.

© 2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top