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Old 07-06-2009, 08:19 AM
 
173 posts, read 199,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjester View Post
If you believe that as truth, then the Bible pretty much confirms that the Devil is a world maker. He obviously can create physical and material things. . Christ didn’t tell the Devil you’re lying because only God the Jehovah is the only creator. Who knows then if this world might have been created by the Devil also? However, why the Jehovah is telling everyone “I am the maker the only maker and creator” someone must have gotten their facts wrong.
Huh? ... you talking some kinda gibberish language or somethin'?

Perhaps you should get your thoughts in order and come back and re-post ....
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Old 07-06-2009, 08:54 AM
 
469 posts, read 698,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShalomPeace View Post
Huh? ... you talking some kinda gibberish language or somethin'?

Perhaps you should get your thoughts in order and come back and re-post ....
That's what happens with the tool called writing. It's very inadequate and it can get confusing not only to the reader but to the writer; If God could have just created humans with simple telepathic ability.
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Old 07-06-2009, 11:03 AM
 
2,054 posts, read 2,575,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjester View Post
[SIZE=3]If you believe that as truth, then the Bible pretty much confirms that the Devil is a world maker. He obviously can create physical and material things. . Christ didn’t tell the Devil you’re lying because only God the Jehovah is the only creator. Who knows then if this world might have been created by the Devil also? However, why the Jehovah is telling everyone “I am the maker the only maker and creator” someone must have gotten their facts wrong. [/SIZE]
I understood you. You have drawn an erroneous conclusion from the passage. Don't have time now to explain, will be back later.
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Old 07-06-2009, 11:20 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShalomPeace View Post
It doesn't matter if it's going in circles, squares or triangles, but you know bro, if you have had tangible experiences with God and the Holy Spirit, you wouldn't even be asking such a question to begin with.

I can't help but wonder if you doubt the Sola Scriptura only because the "Traditions" upheld by Catholics cannot be exhaustively and conclusively verified with the Bible, so the only way to justify them is to discredit and debunk the Sola Scriptura in order to accommodate your extra-biblical beliefs. If your claim that your Traditions are all irrevocably biblical is true, then you guys should have no problems believing the Sola Scriptura too. The very fact that Catholics in every christian forum have to relentlessly argue with the Christians about the Sola Scriptura is already a strong suspicious indicator that your Catholic Traditions leave much to be desired biblically! And if the traditions are of such high value and importance to the Catholics, why on earth did they remain merely as “Oral Traditions” instead of having them carefully and properly translated into Written and Recorded Word and included in the Bible. After all, The New and Old Testaments were not compiled and made official until only centuries after the death of Jesus. Was that not enough time to record and include the “Oral Traditions” that Catholics are vehemently endearing to?

Sure you guys whip out 2 Thess 2:15 to justify your Traditions, but you know what? -- the scriptures have been skewed to accommodate your Traditions – instead of having traditions that clearly conform to the bible. There’s no definitive proof that the traditions referred to in 2 Thess 2:15 is about Catholic Traditions, and it’s impossible to reconcile that the Apostle Paul who wrote this scripture had in mind practices such as venerating the Mary, praying to dead saints and angels and praying the rosary, just to name a few. If only such traditions had been clearly outlined in the bible, Christians/Protestants would have no objections practicing them too, and the fact that we don’t follow any of such “traditions” since we do not know for sure what they really should be does not in any way nullify the Sola Scriptura.

Protestants/Christians trust and believe Sola Scriptura simply because we don’t see the need to believe in any other book, materials or traditions other than the bible. It’s all by FAITH. Simple faith. And unlike other religions including Catholicism, we don’t have to defend our faith in any way because God is showing up big time in our churches and in our lives – which I’m pretty sure no other religion can say the same! We have more than enough life testimonies that speak in defense OF Sola Scriptura, we don’t need to defend it using mind-boggling theological or intellectual logics and rhetorics.




Perhaps it’s because this topic has already been discussed before in this CD forum some time back. And also probably because the other Christians here feel no need to defend for what they believe in. Christianity is all about faith.

I am reminded of a testimony that a Muslim guy shared in church once. He was struggling between the gods of the Koran and the bible, between Islam and Christianity. He was completely at unrest and turmoil within himself about being a Muslim and that’s when he decided to pick up the bible and read and compare it against the Koran in his attempt to find the true God. He was overwhelmed with guilt by his sin of homosexuality and struggling with constant shame and he couldn’t understand why “Allah” could not deliver him from his prolonged sin and self-condemnation. To cut a long story short, Jesus finally showed up in his life in the privacy of his room and spoke to him loud and clear : “ I AM – I am the Alpha and the Omega – the Truth, the Way and the Life”. Now he knew for sure that such Words ain’t found anywhere in the Koran …..

I wish I can point you to a website so that you can read and believe in his testimony yourself, but the truth is, the testimonies of Muslim converts are not uploaded on the web for obvious reasons. Now tell me, is that using scripture to defend Sola Scriptura, or is that a real-life testimony of a Muslim that speaks in defend of Sola Scriptura! If the Lord chose to identify and reveal Himself using solely Scriptures, why would we, who hear, witness and experience such powerful life-transforming testimonies not want to believe in Sola Scriptura? What else is there really to believe beside Sola Scriptura?
The implication left by Thes 2:15 is that there is stuff that wasn't written down.

Sola Scriptura isn't taught by the Bible, so the whole thing is circular, faulty logic. Sola Scriptura is just your (Luther's) presupposition when approaching scripture, a tradition conjured up 1500 years after the fact.

I.E. "we should only believe what the Bible teaches, but nowhere does the Bible teach to only believe what the Bible teaches".
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Old 07-06-2009, 11:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billb7581 View Post
The implication left by Thes 2:15 is that there is stuff that wasn't written down.

Sola Scriptura isn't taught by the Bible, so the whole thing is circular, faulty logic. Sola Scriptura is just your (Luther's) presupposition when approaching scripture, a tradition conjured up 1500 years after the fact.

I.E. "we should only believe what the Bible teaches, but nowhere does the Bible teach to only believe what the Bible teaches".
so I guess we should drop the trinity also?
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Old 07-06-2009, 11:26 AM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 1,575,695 times
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
so I guess we should drop the trinity also?
Fundy, I am once again a bit dumbfounded by your logic. Please explain.
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Old 07-06-2009, 11:29 AM
 
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Originally Posted by juj View Post
Fundy, I am once again a bit dumbfounded by your logic. Please explain.
Simple, the trinity is not in the bible.
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Old 07-06-2009, 11:30 AM
 
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Same here.. the Trinity isn't explicitly taught in the Bible.
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Old 07-06-2009, 11:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billb7581 View Post
Same here.. the Trinity isn't explicitly taught in the Bible.
I figured that. Thank you for understanding my logic.
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Old 07-06-2009, 11:44 AM
 
173 posts, read 199,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billb7581 View Post
The implication left by Thes 2:15 is that there is stuff that wasn't written down.
Of course... during the time of the writing.

How do you know for sure that the "oral traditions" weren't subsequently included in the bible from the time of the writing of that scripure to the time the bible was finally made official. If such "oral traditions" were left as nothing more than mere "oral traditions", it's either because they weren't that important enough to be recorded in black and white, or that they were completely overlooked !!


Quote:
Originally Posted by billb7581 View Post
Sola Scriptura isn't taught by the Bible, so the whole thing is circular, faulty logic. Sola Scriptura is just your (Luther's) presupposition when approaching scripture, a tradition conjured up 1500 years after the fact.
What on earth do you mean - Sola Scriptura isn't taught in the Bible?

Sola Scriptura IS the Bible. Luther probably made the right decision that time to get away from pagan traditions that went against God's Word.


Quote:
Originally Posted by billb7581 View Post
I.E. "we should only believe what the Bible teaches, but nowhere does the Bible teach to only believe what the Bible teaches".
Fine, you believe whatever you want to believe .....

Hey am I the one here to asking you to defend your beliefs ? .....
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