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Old 07-04-2009, 12:08 PM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
3,981 posts, read 5,073,346 times
Reputation: 3630
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
Would God tell us to love our enemies, if He didn't love all?
I think there is confusion about the word 'love' in the passages about God's love, just as there is confusion about "hate' and about 'partiality'!
It is my understanding that the word agape means seeking the other person's highest good. And that is what God does towards us all. He seeks our highest good, through His word.
Many are confusing the word which is used about God's love with our english word 'love'. There is a vast differance. We assume that the word about God's love means an affectionate feeling. That is not what the agape means.

The scriptures about the disciple that Jesus loved, is the word phileo, not agape. It means 'to be a friend'. Phileo is the word used in the scripture about not loving father or mother,etc., more than Him. It is the one about the one who loves his life shall lose it.
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Old 07-04-2009, 12:12 PM
 
9,538 posts, read 4,946,567 times
Reputation: 17599
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Kupp View Post
Hi Lattechic,

What do we do with these verses:

Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.


Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.


Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?


HK

God's choice of Israel instead of the Edomites , Esau's descendents, is evidence of His love for Israel. Being the older than Jacob, his twin brother Esau was the rightful heir of the family tradition. But God, in His wsdom and love, reversed the natural order and chose the younger.

Why.....

It was the heart condition that God saw in Esau....
We read in Gen.25:29-34 that Esau sold his birth right to his older brother, for what? Stew....
This is why I believe God chose Jacob over Esau... not because He hated him...which we should understand and know this is not to be taken in terms of human emotions but as an indication of God's choice of Jacob and his descendents to be His peculiar people and agents of His special mission.
The Edomites did not experience God's wrath because He arbitrarily hated them, but because they had consistently tried to block His plan of salvation through Israel.
God's call is universal; all those who respond to Christ are, in fact, elected ones.

And I believe the other Scripture fall into this catagory...... God had a plan, it was to bring Christ to us!

Now for Rom. 9:15, God declares His freedom to show mercy on His own terms, He is not, however, arbitrary and capricious in having mercy on certain individuals and withholding it from others. Furthermore, His disposition is to show mercy. Our human thinking should never set limits to His compassion.....
Once again the condition of the heart.....
Paul alludes to Jeremiah's description of God as the potter and humanity as the clay. God's fairness and mercy in dealing with us that the potter has power over the clay. God is free to decide under what conditions He will either bless or condemn is that He bless those who trust Him and obey Him, but punish those who distrust His love and do evil....again, God knows the heart, we don't!!

God showing partiality is not the partiality the human mind thinks.....it was to protect his plan through Jesus Christ. Not because he favors others over some.....
God wants all men to come to repentance.
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Old 07-04-2009, 12:23 PM
 
4,512 posts, read 4,399,886 times
Reputation: 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towhee View Post
I think there is confusion about the word 'love' in the passages about God's love, just as there is confusion about "hate' and about 'partiality'!
It is my understanding that the word agape means seeking the other person's highest good. And that is what God does towards us all. He seeks our highest good, through His word.
Many are confusing the word which is used about God's love with our english word 'love'. There is a vast differance. We assume that the word about God's love means an affectionate feeling. That is not what the agape means.

The scriptures about the disciple that Jesus loved, is the word phileo, not agape. It means 'to be a friend'. Phileo is the word used in the scripture about not loving father or mother,etc., more than Him. It is the one about the one who loves his life shall lose it.
thank you for this clarification, Towhee.

is it therefore not justified, to understand the word "partial" as an expression of preferences which on one hand may constitute the larger part of our personalities, as well as on the other need to be "disciplined" as far as a consciousness and awareness training would recommend, not prevent!!! it?

and, if i may digress a bit here, question goes to religious historians (colossal one, please!):

was this immensly wise differentiation within the LOVE spectrum discovered by greek "heathens".

thanks for answering!
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Old 07-04-2009, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,521 posts, read 2,407,258 times
Reputation: 535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towhee View Post
I think there is confusion about the word 'love' in the passages about God's love, just as there is confusion about "hate' and about 'partiality'!
It is my understanding that the word agape means seeking the other person's highest good. And that is what God does towards us all. He seeks our highest good, through His word.
Many are confusing the word which is used about God's love with our english word 'love'. There is a vast differance. We assume that the word about God's love means an affectionate feeling. That is not what the agape means.

The scriptures about the disciple that Jesus loved, is the word phileo, not agape. It means 'to be a friend'. Phileo is the word used in the scripture about not loving father or mother,etc., more than Him. It is the one about the one who loves his life shall lose it.
You're right, Towhee. Just as God seeks a person's best welfare, so should we. There's no way we're going to have mushy, friendly, love for our enemies.
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Old 07-04-2009, 04:18 PM
 
Location: NC
10,259 posts, read 8,251,919 times
Reputation: 1204
Hi, I believe that the greatest love is loving one's enemies, loving when there is no love expected in return, having love for those who hate us and abuse us. It may not be reciprocated. It may be undeserved love and this is what agape love is to me. It is beyond affection. It seeks the best for all, even those who don't deserve it. We were all at one time, enemies of God, and Jesus laid down His life for us. I believe that it is greater than love for friends and family, imo. God bless.
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Old 07-04-2009, 04:24 PM
 
Location: RI
18,178 posts, read 8,252,255 times
Reputation: 1293
I would say God is rather partial to the whole of His creation . It's His nature to be nothing but that . If you can not comprehend this through knowing Him personally , all you are doing is interpreting the scripture through the carnality of your own imagination.
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Old 07-04-2009, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Hot-Houston Texas
19,979 posts, read 19,794,876 times
Reputation: 27963
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte'Chic View Post
God's choice of Israel instead of the Edomites , Esau's descendents, is evidence of His love for Israel. Being the older than Jacob, his twin brother Esau was the rightful heir of the family tradition. But God, in His wsdom and love, reversed the natural order and chose the younger.

Why.....

It was the heart condition that God saw in Esau....
We read in Gen.25:29-34 that Esau sold his birth right to his older brother, for what? Stew....
This is why I believe God chose Jacob over Esau... not because He hated him...which we should understand and know this is not to be taken in terms of human emotions but as an indication of God's choice of Jacob and his descendents to be His peculiar people and agents of His special mission.
The Edomites did not experience God's wrath because He arbitrarily hated them, but because they had consistently tried to block His plan of salvation through Israel.
God's call is universal; all those who respond to Christ are, in fact, elected ones.

And I believe the other Scripture fall into this catagory...... God had a plan, it was to bring Christ to us!

Now for Rom. 9:15, God declares His freedom to show mercy on His own terms, He is not, however, arbitrary and capricious in having mercy on certain individuals and withholding it from others. Furthermore, His disposition is to show mercy. Our human thinking should never set limits to His compassion.....
Once again the condition of the heart.....
Paul alludes to Jeremiah's description of God as the potter and humanity as the clay. God's fairness and mercy in dealing with us that the potter has power over the clay. God is free to decide under what conditions He will either bless or condemn is that He bless those who trust Him and obey Him, but punish those who distrust His love and do evil....again, God knows the heart, we don't!!

God showing partiality is not the partiality the human mind thinks.....it was to protect his plan through Jesus Christ. Not because he favors others over some.....
God wants all men to come to repentance.
AMEN!
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Old 07-04-2009, 04:36 PM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
3,981 posts, read 5,073,346 times
Reputation: 3630
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
I would say God is rather partial to the whole of His creation . It's His nature to be nothing but that . If you can not comprehend this through knowing Him personally , all you are doing is interpreting the scripture through the carnality of your own imagination.
I am sorry that you feel it necessary to make such sarcastic remarks about everything we say...
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Old 07-04-2009, 04:37 PM
 
Location: NC
10,259 posts, read 8,251,919 times
Reputation: 1204
Quote:
It was the heart condition that God saw in Esau....
We read in Gen.25:29-34 that Esau sold his birth right to his older brother, for what? Stew....
This is true, that God saw the heart condition of each, but God also made the choice before they were even born and had even done anything. (Romans 9) I believe His choice was based on the purpose that He had for them and to show that He is indeed ultimately sovereign over all. Vs. 16 it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs but on God who has mercy. God bless.
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Old 07-04-2009, 04:42 PM
 
Location: RI
18,178 posts, read 8,252,255 times
Reputation: 1293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towhee View Post
I am sorry that you feel it necessary to make such sarcastic remarks about everything we say...
Actually Towhee no sarcasm intended from me , God is not partial period. Infact i was responding to beloved not your good self .

Also for the very first time i agree in part with what Latte Chic posted.

So don't get your knickers in a twist.

Last edited by pcamps; 07-04-2009 at 05:56 PM..
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