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Old 07-04-2009, 01:02 PM
 
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This chapter of Ezekiel is very interesting. It is a prophecy of the restoration of Israel at the time of the resurrection of the dead. The resurrection is here prophesied to be a literal raising of the dead corpses. The bones come together and the sinew and muscle appears on them and then the flesh and finally they are given breath. Many might like to explain this away as only being symbolic ... However we find Ezekiel making the point that his words were not parabolic in Eze 20:49.

This is for those who claim the resurrection of the dead is only another reference to the baptism of the spirit and the new birth. You cant get a more literal representation of the resurrection. Also at this time(time of the resurrection) we see Israel being restored and not destroyed. These things have yet to come to pass. Even Maimonides did agree that this was a future prophecy.
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Old 07-04-2009, 01:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
This chapter of Ezekiel is very interesting. It is a prophecy of the restoration of Israel at the time of the resurrection of the dead. The resurrection is here prophesied to be a literal raising of the dead corpses. The bones come together and the sinew and muscle appears on them and then the flesh and finally they are given breath. Many might like to explain this away as only being symbolic ... However we find Ezekiel making the point that his words were not parabolic in Eze 20:49.

This is for those who claim the resurrection of the dead is only another reference to the baptism of the spirit and the new birth. You cant get a more literal representation of the resurrection. Also at this time(time of the resurrection) we see Israel being restored and not destroyed. These things have yet to come to pass. Even Maimonides did agree that this was a future prophecy.
Matthew 27:52-53 clears this up nicely.
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Old 07-04-2009, 01:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Matthew 27:52-53 clears this up nicely.
Israel was not being restored at that time. Ezekiel 37 is referring to a time yet to come when Israel will be restored under the reign of Christ.
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Old 07-04-2009, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Israel was not being restored at that time. Ezekiel 37 is referring to a time yet to come when Israel will be restored under the reign of Christ.
Dear Ironmaw,

Are you looking for a physical restoration of Israel to a physical land? Jesus said the "kingdom does not come with observation." (Luke 17:20). Why do you look for an observable kingdom, when Christ said it would not come? The restoration of Israel was their salvation and redemption that came in the first century. Entrance into the kingdom is by spiritual birth, not descent from Abraham. Again, I want to call your attention to the timing of the resurrection, "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt...and when he shall have accomplished to SCATTER THE POWER OF THE HOLY PEOPLE, ALL THESE THINGS SHALL BE FULFILLED. The restoration of Israel came through Christ at the end of their age, not the end of some future age.
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Old 07-04-2009, 07:10 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,405,448 times
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Quote:
Dear Ironmaw,

Are you looking for a physical restoration of Israel to a physical land? Jesus said the "kingdom does not come with observation." (Luke 17:20). Why do you look for an observable kingdom, when Christ said it would not come? The restoration of Israel was their salvation and redemption that came in the first century. Entrance into the kingdom is by spiritual birth, not descent from Abraham. Again, I want to call your attention to the timing of the resurrection, "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt...and when he shall have accomplished to SCATTER THE POWER OF THE HOLY PEOPLE, ALL THESE THINGS SHALL BE

I disagree ...

You are interpreting prophetic scripture as if it were an analogy because of a few misunderstanding about time. I personally believe taking most of the prophecy of the bible concerning the last days and interpreting it all figuratively in order to compress it all into the time period of the destruction of the temple is fallacious in the least and very deceptive at worst. Those who believe as you will be willing to accept the beast system which is taking over the world. I understand your preterism to be very dangerous and far from the truth. I am still interested in knowing more about it, but not because i have been in any way convinced of it. In my opinion its a house of cards built on very flimsy exegesis at its foundation. Its is not historically accurate either in that the early church fathers never spoke of this doctrine.
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Old 07-04-2009, 07:56 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
I disagree ...

You are interpreting prophetic scripture as if it were an analogy because of a few misunderstanding about time. I personally believe taking most of the prophecy of the bible concerning the last days and interpreting it all figuratively in order to compress it all into the time period of the destruction of the temple is fallacious in the least and very deceptive at worst. Those who believe as you will be willing to accept the beast system which is taking over the world. I understand your preterism to be very dangerous and far from the truth. I am still interested in knowing more about it, but not because i have been in any way convinced of it. In my opinion its a house of cards built on very flimsy exegesis at its foundation. Its is not historically accurate either in that the early church fathers never spoke of this doctrine.
Dear Ironmaw,

You disagree, but you are not dealing with the time scripture in Daniel, or the observation scripture in Luke 17:20. What do you disagree with?
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Old 07-04-2009, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Illinois
396 posts, read 515,803 times
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Dear Ironmaw,

Maybe I can approach your view of a future restoration of Israel this way. What do you do with the following scriptures:

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
(Rom.2:28-29)

Paul, a Jew, describes for us the true Israel of God. How do you respond?
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Old 07-06-2009, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Illinois
396 posts, read 515,803 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
I disagree ...

You are interpreting prophetic scripture as if it were an analogy because of a few misunderstanding about time. I personally believe taking most of the prophecy of the bible concerning the last days and interpreting it all figuratively in order to compress it all into the time period of the destruction of the temple is fallacious in the least and very deceptive at worst. Those who believe as you will be willing to accept the beast system which is taking over the world. I understand your preterism to be very dangerous and far from the truth. I am still interested in knowing more about it, but not because i have been in any way convinced of it. In my opinion its a house of cards built on very flimsy exegesis at its foundation. Its is not historically accurate either in that the early church fathers never spoke of this doctrine.

What does fallacious mean????
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Old 03-31-2017, 04:38 PM
 
89 posts, read 52,815 times
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Dear Ironmaw,

You write in the OP:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
This chapter of Ezekiel is very interesting. It is a prophecy of the restoration of Israel at the time of the resurrection of the dead. The resurrection is here prophesied to be a literal raising of the dead corpses. The bones come together and the sinew and muscle appears on them and then the flesh and finally they are given breath. Many might like to explain this away as only being symbolic ... However we find Ezekiel making the point that his words were not parabolic in Eze 20:49.
To clarify, parabolic means: expressed in parables.
I sympathize with what you are saying that Ezekiel 37 isn't just an allegory.

You are also making a great point by pointing to Ezekiel 20:49:
Then said I, "Alas, O Lord God, they say of me, 'Is he not an inventor of parables?'" (JPT version)
I added this to my thread about Ezekiel 37 (Questions about Ezekiel 37)
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Old 03-31-2017, 04:42 PM
 
89 posts, read 52,815 times
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Jeapostle, you ask:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeapostle View Post
Dear Ironmaw,

Are you looking for a physical restoration of Israel to a physical land? Jesus said the "kingdom does not come with observation." (Luke 17:20). Why do you look for an observable kingdom, when Christ said it would not come?
A lot of modern Americans just take each passage in the Bible at face value, without relying on the centuries of Christian traditions explaining how the Church is a continuation of ancient Israel.

It looks like you asked him an excellent question:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeapostle View Post
Dear Ironmaw,

Maybe I can approach your view of a future restoration of Israel this way. What do you do with the following scriptures:

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
(Rom.2:28-29)

Paul, a Jew, describes for us the true Israel of God. How do you respond?
So he never replied because the meaning of Paul's words is so clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeapostle View Post
What does fallacious mean????
Here is what Google Definitions says:
Quote:
adjective: fallacious

based on a mistaken belief.
"fallacious arguments"
synonyms: erroneous, false, untrue, wrong, incorrect, flawed, inaccurate, mistaken, misinformed, misguided
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