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Old 07-06-2009, 09:17 AM
 
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What is reconciliation?
Is it not the coming together of two sides of which as least one is at enmity to in peace?

Every creature that is at enmity to God in the Heavens and on the Earth will one day be at peace with God.

Is Satan a creature? Is He at enmity to God? If you answered yes to both of these questions then you must concur that Satan will one day drop all enmity and be reconciled to God (Col.1:20).
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Old 07-06-2009, 09:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
What is reconciliation?
Is it not the coming together of two sides of which as least one is at enmity to in peace?

Every creature that is at enmity to God in the Heavens and on the Earth will one day be at peace with God.

Is Satan a creature? Is He at enmity to God? If you answered yes to both of these questions then you must concur that Satan will one day drop all enmity and be reconciled to God (Col.1:20).
Yes and the elect and God will reconcile
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Old 07-06-2009, 09:55 AM
 
Location: The A
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Every creature that is at enmity to God in the Heavens and on the Earth will one day be at peace with God.
No they wont, the devil and his seed wont matt 25:

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:05 AM
 
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Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
No they wont, the devil and his seed wont matt 25:

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


Well of course correction is a temporary process.


Mt 25:41 "Then shall He be declaring to those also at His left, `Go from Me, you ocursed, into the age-bearing fire, made ready for the Adversary and his messengers.
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Germany
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No they wont, the devil and his seed wont matt 25:

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
how often will you repeat this verse:

this is an excerpt of what an evangelical German theology professor wrote on the subject:

The further accommodations of the author of this pamphlet (against Universalism) really pleased us: "Likewise is the belief that finally all creatures get saved and become blessed extremely glorious and superior. This alone seems worthy of a God of love. A lot of verses seem to support this view. There is no Christian heart on which this thought isn’t appealing."


We thank our dear brother from the bottom of our heart for such open and manful words.We’re convinced that they’ll find a warm echo at all true children of God. Why don’t they accept so obviously and clear words like 1 Timothy 4:10, that God is the Savior of all men, specially of those that believe? Where‘s the difficulty? - Can it be cleared through careful studying?


Let‘s hear the author by himself, how he considers the topic as a honest but traditional exponent of the church‘s teaching of endless torment. He says: "But there is spoken of eternal damnation and eternal torment again and again in the strongest terms. If you want to say that the words for eternal and eternity don‘t always have the meaning of endless duration, then the argument of the great Augustine is true, that when is spoken of life and bliss they can‘t keep their meaning too, and that there could no longer be spoken about eternal life (Mt. 25:46)."


We gladly notice that our brother makes no attempt to deny, that such words of God like 1 Timothy 4:10 teach without doubt that God really is the Savior of all men, not only desires to be. That’s a great benefit for our study. But what’s about the serious stumbling block he mentioned?


It’s characteristic, that his only argument is the biblical use of the words that have been translated with “eternal” and “eternity”. This is the adversarial argument, which is the clearest for the common and uneducated reader. If we can prove from the Bible, in a way that the common man from among the people will understand that the great Augustine and all that use the same argument became victim of a fallacy, then is this biggest stumbling block and most popular argument against the belief that God is indeed the Savior of all men refuted for every straight thinking man.


We forbear from doing a scholarly examination and want to speak to the common people that only know and accept the Scripture. How do we want to prove that Augustine was wrong? He said: If the words talking about the doom of the wicked don’t mean endless duration, then the life and the bliss of the saved have also no endless duration. If it‘s now possible to demonstrate that the Scripture obviously used the words for "eternal" and "eternity" in the same sentence once applied to something that by its nature can only thought to be infinite and the other time on something that by its nature can never be thought infinite, then Augustine’s conclusion can only be considered as unscriptural.


Let’s look upon two Bible words, the one is written in Romans 16:25-26, …according to the revelation of the mystery having been kept unvoiced during eternal (aiōnios) times, but now has been made plain, and by prophetic Scriptures, according to the commandment of the eternal (aiōnios) God.


There is no need for scholarliness to recognize that times in their nature can never be infinite or eternal, but they are obvious with the same word designated that is used to denote the eternal God. On the other hand no one needs to prove that God in his nature can only thought of being infinite.


If Augustine had used the same logic here as in Matthew 25:46, then he could have said, if the times called eternal here were not infinite - then God called eternal here is not infinite too - a blatant fallacy.


We have a similar example in Titus 1:2 (also 2Tim 1:9) …on hope of eternal (aiōnios) life which the God who does not lie promised before eternal (aiōnios) timesIf there is a linguistic term that is fundamentally different from infinity, then it is "time" or "times". Nevertheless are they called "eternal" (aiōnios), a striking proof that this adjective itself is not suitable to denote infinity.


All adjectives that refer to God and His life get their true meaning from there, but not the way round. Wherever the word translated "eternal" (Greek: aiōnios - aeonian or age(s)-long), refers to creature, men or mere human conditions or circumstances it never has the sense of infinity cause nothing creatural can be thought of being infinite, unless it partook in the divine nature of divine life and entity.


Our appreciated brother and friend in the adversarial camp concludes now from Augustine’s words: "Nobody has proved yet, that the Scriptures doesn’t teach the infinity of the damnation and torment of the wicked."


After our examination we just want to answer in similar words:


Nobody has sure proved yet, that the words of the Bible teach the infinity of the damnation and torment of the wicked.


Also this proof will never be adduced as long the Scripture alone and not human philosophy has to determine which sense the word translated with "eternal" has. As long as this proof can’t be adduced without any gap, it is at least very bold to forbid the ordinary children of God believing their heavenly God and Father on his word, that He was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself (2Co 5:19) and that God will be all in all (1Co 15:28).
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:31 AM
 
Location: The A
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Quote:
how often will you repeat this verse:
as often as it contradicts false notions..
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:35 AM
 
Location: NC
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Well of course correction is a temporary process.


Mt 25:41 "Then shall He be declaring to those also at His left, `Go from Me, you ocursed, into the age-bearing fire, made ready for the Adversary and his messengers.
Amen. God bless
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:38 AM
 
Location: NC
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Yes and the elect and God will reconcile



And
Colossians 1:15-20
15. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.16. For by Him all things were created,all things have been created through Him and for Him.17. He is both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--before all things, and in Him all things hold together.18. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.19. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,20. and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.


God bless.
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Old 07-06-2009, 12:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Yes and the elect and God will reconcile
Fundamentalist, you put that in the future tense.
Colossians 1:21 says the elect are reconciled NOW.
Colossians 1:20 talks about the rest of all mankind and
those in the heavens being reconciled in the future.
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Old 07-06-2009, 12:42 PM
 
Location: NC
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Agree. God bless.
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