Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Do Christians really believe this verse? I mean do we really hold true to it? that there is nothing we can do to be saved that it is all God yet I hear people in this forum and many in church say, it is a choice; we make the choice to serve God? again let's look at (Ephesians 2:8) Keep saying it over and over again and then tell me how does one make a choice?
Is the doctrine of election a difficult doctrine because of our fallen condition? Is living in a country like the Unites States make it difficult to accept this doctrine? Think about it. We come and go as we please, we choose what church we go to, our jobs, we even have say on picking our leaders and yet the doctrine of election says, "THERE IS NO CHOICE" apart from God, that we have absolutely no say in our salvation. Wow! for the average American that is a mind boggling concept, just too hard to swallow and yet it is big and bold in scripture; God constantly choosing people for His own reasons ultimately to give Him the glory whether it was Noah, Abraham to His chosen people; the Jews.
(John 15:16) 16"You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you.......
(1 John 4:19) 19 We love, because He first loved us.
We cannot choose God unless He chooses us first. I love this doctrine, it is my favorite doctrine not to mention a very, very humbling doctrine, it shows the love and sovereignty of God.
Yes, I definitely believe it is a gift from God. I do believe that He chose us all to be saved and loves us all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist
Yes most definitely! If God desires salvation then it will happen.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
I realize that, but I was just showing the similarities between Calvinism and UR. Sorry, don't wish to reroute your thread, so enough about UR.
Agreed, Aminians have it wrong too!
Here is the deal: God is sovereign folks. He has declared the beginning from the end (Isa 46:10). He is operating all things according to His will (not man's "free" will) (Eph 1:11). No one can come to Jesus unless God draws (drags) him (John 6:44, John 6:65). It is God who leads a man to repent, not the man himself (Romans 2:4).
In fact, God directs each persons steps (actions & decisions) as shown in Prov 20:24 and Jer 10:23 and elsewhere. He bends the Kings heart however He pleases (Prov 21:1).
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Do Christians really believe this verse? I mean do we really hold true to it? that there is nothing we can do to be saved that it is all God yet I hear people in this forum and many in church say, it is a choice; we make the choice to serve God? again let's look at (Ephesians 2:8) Keep saying it over and over again and then tell me how does one make a choice?
Is the doctrine of election a difficult doctrine because of our fallen condition? Is living in a country like the Unites States make it difficult to accept this doctrine? Think about it. We come and go as we please, we choose what church we go to, our jobs, we even have say on picking our leaders and yet the doctrine of election says, "THERE IS NO CHOICE" apart from God, that we have absolutely no say in our salvation. Wow! for the average American that is a mind boggling concept, just too hard to swallow and yet it is big and bold in scripture; God constantly choosing people for His own reasons ultimately to give Him the glory whether it was Noah, Abraham to His chosen people; the Jews.
(John 15:16) 16"You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you.......
(1 John 4:19) 19 We love, because He first loved us.
We cannot choose God unless He chooses us first. I love this doctrine, it is my favorite doctrine not to mention a very, very humbling doctrine, it shows the love and sovereignty of God.
From what I get from it is that the key is faith. If you dont have faith then you are not of the elect you dont bear good fruit and God only pick people of faith.
Yes, I definitely believe it is a gift from God. I do believe that He chose us all to be saved and loves us all.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
From what I get from it is that the key is faith. If you dont have faith then you are not of the elect you dont bear good fruit and God only pick people of faith.
The elect dont have faith until they are born again, but they are elect before that..
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
No all are not elect..thats just you saying that lol..
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
The elect is not ALL. Consider this verse: Romans 11:5
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
The elect refers to A REMNANT, not all.
Last edited by jeapostle; 07-06-2009 at 02:47 PM..
Reason: did not include scripture
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
