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Old 07-06-2009, 09:09 PM
 
Location: The A
1,876 posts, read 2,018,814 times
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Lk 19:

10For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.


This truth here is so much different from what todays antichrist ministers and follwers teach these days.

For they teach a christ who came to seek and possibly save..depending on the one getting saved..they teach that perhaps or maybe he might save..This antichristian teaching begins with the pope in rome, to the little storefronts in our neighborhoods, all shall worship the beast scripture says..

But the Jesus Christ of scripture came first of all to seek..and this is no ordinary man we are speaking of here, but God in the flesh, The Son of God, who is upholding all things by the word of his power.

heb 1:

2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:


And because of the depravity of those he came to save, that is, they cannot seek him rom 3:11..He comes and seeks them..

You see, when one is lost, they cannot do anything, all hope is gone..its like being in the world without God and wihout hope as in eph 2:

12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise,

having no hope, and without God in the world:

Think about that, having no hope, and without God in this world, no chance at eternal life..and yes, their are some people like that right now today..

But He that cometh to seek, is also he that is Mighty to save..He is the Mighty God..so can he cometh up short of that which He seeketh after ?

He came not only to seek, but to save.. A saviour who doesnt save, is not a saviour at all.. A saviour who comes to save a people from their sins, and comes up short of saving them because of their sins, is not a saviour at all..

He came to save, not make savable, but to save..nothing short of salvation suffices this one who came to seek and to save..

What did He come to seek and to save ? Matt 1:

21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Gods people isa 53:

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

The children of God who have been taken captive by the devil..jn 11:


51And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; 52And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

2 tim 2:

And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

He came to save not the devils children, but Gods children, all them that sinned in their natural father adam..Notice Jesus calls himself the Son of man in the text, that is, according to the flesh, He is the Son of Adam [Man]

Jesus came to seek and to save the election of grace, that fell in adam, his brethern..

The antichrist servants say he came to not to save, but to make saving possible..by this you know the Spirit of Truth, and the Spirit of error..

1 jn 4:

We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
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Old 07-21-2009, 12:34 AM
 
Location: The A
1,876 posts, read 2,018,814 times
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Default The Different titles for those Jesus christ died for !

It has been seriously misrepresented as to who Jesus christ died for. The false Gospel preachers tell us that Jesus christ died to save all of humanity, every single human being, even the children / seed of the devil !

But its Just not so..Throughout scripture God has been very honest about the fact that He has a chosen people, in fact He raised up the nation of Israel to typify that Fact..

Israel is merely one of many distinct character names of which tells us for whom Christ Died in lieu of all of mankind to include the non elect, the seed of the serpent..

Notice what Paul says as to whom Jesus christ died acts 13:

Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Peter acts 5:31

Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

You see that ? A Saviour to Israel, to give them repentance and forgiveness of sins..but peter, not like paul, did not know then, that Israel was not a ethnic people but a special chosen people comprised of jew and gentile, but nevertheless, he was correct to limiting it to Israel, and not to all of mankind..

Here are some other designations of those whom Christ died for:

The Sheep jn 10:

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Are all sheep ? No i.e jn 10:

26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

matt 25:

33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

There is no scripture that specifically says Christ laid down his life for the goats as it did for the sheep ! That should tell ya somethng..

more designations:

children Jn 11:


51And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

heb 2:


13And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Not the children of the devil..but the children of God..two different sets of children..

The Church:

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave [died] himself for it;[chrch]

acts 20:

to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.[by dying for it]

The church of the firstborn: heb 12

23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn,

His or Gods people matt 1:

21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

isa 53:

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

These being in contrast to these:

The rest rom 11:

7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

The world: Jn 17:

9I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

1 cor 11:

32But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Goats:

matt 25:

41Then shall he say also unto them[goats] on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

remember who earlier was said to be on his Left hand ?

33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

so there is no scripture that tells us Jesus died for the goats, to say He did is high speculation and presumption..

as peter says:

2 pet 2:

But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

Amen, presumptuous and selfwilled are those proclaiming that Jesus christ died to save all of mankind to include the devils seed..when scripture is absolutely clear on those specifically He died for..His church, His people, His sheep...His Israel !
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Old 07-21-2009, 06:54 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,681,725 times
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Ro 8:21 that the creation itself, also, shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
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Old 07-21-2009, 07:00 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,448,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Ro 8:21 that the creation itself, also, shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
Quote:
What did He come to seek and to save ? Matt 1:

21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
When the bible says, Jesus came to save His people from their sins; it means just Jews or carpenters-depends how you feel? maybe both? that is what I believe to be true.

I can take things out of context too.
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Old 07-21-2009, 07:13 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,403,926 times
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Fundy, maybe you can respond in my other thread about Romans 8:20-21. The context there is all creation - which includes all humans. All will be brought into glorious freedom and join the children of God. No need to cry foul over context, its quite simple.

My post from the other thread:

I mean, how hard is this? The meaning is OBVIOUS.

1. All creation is subject to vanity -> that is talking about humans, because obviously humans have vanity.
2. This same "all creation that is subject to vanity" (ie. humans) will be delivered from bondage into the freedom of the children of God!


THAT IS THE CONTEXT FOLKS! HOW CAN IT BE ANYTHING ELSE?
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Old 07-21-2009, 07:15 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,448,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Fundy, maybe you can respond in my other thread about Romans 8:20-21. The context there is all creation - which includes all humans. All will be brought into glorious freedom and join the children of God. No need to cry foul over context, its quite simple.

My post from the other thread:

I mean, how hard is this? The meaning is OBVIOUS.

1. All creation is subject to vanity -> that is talking about humans, because obviously humans have vanity.
2. This same "all creation that is subject to vanity" (ie. humans) will be delivered from bondage into the freedom of the children of God!


THAT IS THE CONTEXT FOLKS! HOW CAN IT BE ANYTHING ELSE?
I will respond if you tell me where you got your interpretation from?
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Old 07-21-2009, 07:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I will respond if you tell me where you got your interpretation from?
It came from my brain. By reading the bible. The words in the bible. Words mean things. They are in English in mine. Some people look at the Greek too. Take your pick.


If you don't believe me, read it for yourself. Seriously, look at the verses, KJV this time:
Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

So are birds, bees, and trees subject to vanity? NO, humans are.

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

This is talking about the same creature, being delivered from the bondage of corruption. What corruption? The vanity in the previous verse. It is this vanity which is sin which leads to decay and death. This is talking about humans again.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Whole creation to me seems to be everything, but at least all humans. All humans have a groaning for something, they just might not know what. Especially nonbelievers - they are always searching for something to satisfy them, give them the happy life, but ultimately only God can do that. So they are groaning (thought they may not realize why).

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

"And not only they". Who is the "they"? Everyone else. Who is "ourselves"? That's us, believers, specifically the firstfruits. We groan too, waiting to be redeemed incorruptible, because we too are still corrupted in our fleshly bodies.


But the key point is verse 21. All creation (including humans) will join the children of God in glorious freedom from bondage to death and decay! NLT:

Romans 8:21 the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God’s children in glorious freedom from death and decay.

Are you still going to cry foul over "context"?
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Old 07-21-2009, 07:37 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,448,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
It came from my brain. By reading the bible. The words in the bible. Words mean things. They are in English in mine. Some people look at the Greek too. Take your pick.


Imagine a world where each Christian just read the bible, using their own brain and "gifts"?

I study scripture very hard using basic hermeneutical principals. I subject myself under great teachers who were taught by other great teacher, who were taught by other great teachers and so forth. These are men who were given the gifts of teaching and interpretation as the bible says. I do not have the gift of interpretation so I study hard and pray for correct discernment.

Were off topic..............apologies to the OP

Verse 19 is creation, meaning animate and inanimate, except human beings, v 22-23 where "whole creation" and "we ourselves" are contrasted. Of course you are taking it out of context since you say, verse 19 is talking about human beings separate from God's children or vanity? which I have no clue how you came up with that. Our interpretations are directly opposed to one another.

You go on believing what you study and I will go along leaning what I am taught since I lack this spiritual gift.
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Old 07-21-2009, 07:39 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,550,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
Goats:

matt 25:

41Then shall he say also unto them[goats] on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

remember who earlier was said to be on his Left hand ?

33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

so there is no scripture that tells us Jesus died for the goats, to say He did is high speculation and presumption..

as peter says:

2 pet 2:

But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

Amen, presumptuous and selfwilled are those proclaiming that Jesus christ died to save all of mankind to include the devils seed..when scripture is absolutely clear on those specifically He died for..His church, His people, His sheep...His Israel !
__________________
You have to see that we have members that war against each other - check out Paul's fight in Romans 7. Jesus instructed us to take up our cross and die to the flesh which is under the bondage of sin. He prophesied the separation of the wheat from the tares in Mat 13 - He preached fire TO HIS FOLLOWERS - there's too much evidence toward a refining both presently and in the future.
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Old 07-21-2009, 07:50 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,403,926 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Imagine a world where each Christian just read the bible, using their own brain and "gifts"?

I study scripture very hard using basic hermeneutical principals. I subject myself under great teachers who were taught by other great teacher, who were taught by other great teachers and so forth. These are men who were given the gifts of teaching and interpretation as the bible says. I do not have the gift of interpretation so I study hard and pray for correct discernment.

Were off topic..............apologies to the OP

Verse 19 is creation, meaning animate and inanimate, except human beings, v 22-23 where "whole creation" and "we ourselves" are contrasted. Of course you are taking it out of context since you say, verse 19 is talking about human beings separate from God's children or vanity? which I have no clue how you came up with that. Our interpretations are directly opposed to one another.

You go on believing what you study and I will go along leaning what I am taught since I lack this spiritual gift.
So you didn't use your own brain and just read the words? Yes I have studied what many other people say on the subject as well, but finally I have to decide myself what it says, not blindly follow others.

OK. You mention I say verse 19 is talking about blah blah blah. HELLO I didn't say ANYTHING about verse 19. Did you even read my post?

Verse 20 is speaking of all creation, including humans. It must specifically include humans, because it speaks of vanity, which is a human trait.

Likewise verse 21 continues the thoughts and says all humans will join the children of God.

CASE CLOSED. Please forget the other verses for a second - they are a distraction. Focus on Verse 20 & 21. All humans will join the children of God in freedom from decay and bondage! It can be no other way, unless you wish to change the meaning of every word in the English language.

YES We are off-topic, but you ran away from the other thread.
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