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The word translated hell in the old testament is Sheol, it means Grave. The Christian concept of hell is derived from the Nordic Hel, daughter of Loki and sister to Fenri the wolf. In Nordic mythology Hel is said to reside over a region of the land of the dead also known as Hel. The use of the term hell as the English translation of the word Sheol in the old testament is certainly questionable. Everyone goes to Sheol, as it represents purely the grave, I.e. the wages of sin is death. The fiery torture pit of Orthodox and Fundamentalist religions is purely a work of fiction more closely related to ancient Nordic, Babylonian and Egyptian mystery cults and Dante's inferno than to True Judeo-Christianity as was established in the first four centuries AD. The fire of Gods wrath which burns the enemies of God and the whole earth at the fullness of time is rightly understood as a purification, correction, and renewal of the wicked. That is what the pre-Babylonian captivity Jews believed and that is what the first Christians believed and that is what modern Jews believe now days as well.
Eternal Hell is literally a pagan myth ...
Right on the mark Ironmaw1776. Nicely said and very true.
I have found that Sheoul means not only "the grave" but also carries a qualifying meaning of "the hidden" meaning a place not able to be seen.
Eternal "Hell" is indeed a Teutonic pagan concept predominately known in Babylonian religions such as Zoroastrianism and as you well stated, Nordic religions.
Now before anyone starts insulting me or deeming me a heretic, do some research into the history of the words themselves. How simple can the concept be that Eternal Torture is NOWHERE in the Old Testament. People here quoted a very impressive amount of "references" that SEEM to prove that eternal Hell exists in the OT but for one problem, the words are simply mistranslated. I am afraid that the KJV is very inaccurate in many aspects of translations. This is not my opinion, it is a fact. Do a Hebrew word study and you will see that Sheoul(the hidden, grave) has no meaning akin to an eternal "Hell" and the word Gehenna(a garbage dump where garbage was burned and then went out) has even less. The NT translation of Hades and Tartarus into the pagan word "hell"(derived from the goddess Hel, as already stated) is an abomination in translation. For the record, I believe that the word "hell" NEVER appeared in any translations until 1545 AD. This alone should tell us all something, the very concept of "hell" came not from the inspiration of God our Father but from the minds of men and the concept of eternal "hell" came from very mislead minds.
The gospel is really VERY simple: 1 Timothy 2:4-6
4 Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one Mediator of God and mankind, a Man, Christ Jesus,
6 Who is giving Himself a correspondent Ransom for all (the testimony in its own eras). (CLV)
I am not going to waste my time trying to convince anyone because I know it is an act of futility. You must be willing to examine many aspects of your beliefs in order to "test all things" as Paul instructed. I came to adjust my belief in Christ by harmonizing fact with His character as shown in the NT. In a parable, 99 sheep were not enough for our Savior, He went back for the 1 lost sheep... He did not have a Bar-B-Q and roast the little bugger. This is the heart of our Father:
John 3:16-17
16 For thus God loves the world, so that He gives His only-begotten Son, that everyone who is believing in Him should not be perishing, but may be having life eonian.
17 For God does not dispatch His Son into the world that He should be judging the world, but that the world may be saved through Him. (CLT)
OK, let the flaming begin but remember, the flames of correction will NOT last forever....
Right on the mark Ironmaw1776. Nicely said and very true.
I have found that Sheoul means not only "the grave" but also carries a qualifying meaning of "the hidden" meaning a place not able to be seen.
Eternal "Hell" is indeed a Teutonic pagan concept predominately known in Babylonian religions such as Zoroastrianism and as you well stated, Nordic religions.
Now before anyone starts insulting me or deeming me a heretic, do some research into the history of the words themselves. How simple can the concept be that Eternal Torture is NOWHERE in the Old Testament. People here quoted a very impressive amount of "references" that SEEM to prove that eternal Hell exists in the OT but for one problem, the words are simply mistranslated. I am afraid that the KJV is very inaccurate in many aspects of translations. This is not my opinion, it is a fact. Do a Hebrew word study and you will see that Sheoul(the hidden, grave) has no meaning akin to an eternal "Hell" and the word Gehenna(a garbage dump where garbage was burned and then went out) has even less. The NT translation of Hades and Tartarus into the pagan word "hell"(derived from the goddess Hel, as already stated) is an abomination in translation. For the record, I believe that the word "hell" NEVER appeared in any translations until 1545 AD. This alone should tell us all something, the very concept of "hell" came not from the inspiration of God our Father but from the minds of men and the concept of eternal "hell" came from very mislead minds.
The gospel is really VERY simple: 1 Timothy 2:4-6
4 Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one Mediator of God and mankind, a Man, Christ Jesus,
6 Who is giving Himself a correspondent Ransom for all (the testimony in its own eras). (CLV)
I am not going to waste my time trying to convince anyone because I know it is an act of futility. You must be willing to examine many aspects of your beliefs in order to "test all things" as Paul instructed. I came to adjust my belief in Christ by harmonizing fact with His character as shown in the NT. In a parable, 99 sheep were not enough for our Savior, He went back for the 1 lost sheep... He did not have a Bar-B-Q and roast the little bugger. This is the heart of our Father:
John 3:16-17
16 For thus God loves the world, so that He gives His only-begotten Son, that everyone who is believing in Him should not be perishing, but may be having life eonian.
17 For God does not dispatch His Son into the world that He should be judging the world, but that the world may be saved through Him. (CLT)
OK, let the flaming begin but remember, the flames of correction will NOT last forever....
Just look at the examples, Abraham repented of all he had done wrong, David repented, look throughout the Bible and you will see they repented and followed God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69
Seperation from God would be eternal hell.Isa 59:2
2But your iniquities have been separating Between you and your God, And your sins have hidden The Presence from you -- from hearing.
Not a hint of eternal hell in this scripture.
So using seperation as proof of eternal hell is sheer stupidity . That means all who are alienated(seperated) by the carnality of their minds are in eternal torment until they believe.
Clutching at straws to find scriptures and you are giving it the thumbs up . tut tut
ILNC you were seperated from God before you believed , did God rescue you out of eternal hell ? , of cause not
2But your iniquities have been separating Between you and your God, And your sins have hidden The Presence from you -- from hearing.
Not a hint of eternal hell in this scripture.
So using seperation as proof of eternal hell is sheer stupidity . That means all who are alienated(seperated) by the carnality of their minds are in eternal torment until they believe.
Clutching at straws to find scriptures and you are giving it the thumbs up . tut tut
ILNC you were seperated from God before you believed , did God rescue you out of eternal hell ? , of cause not
I said in order to clarify, No one is condemned to eternal hell until the second coming of Christ and then He will decide.
I said in order to clarify, No one is condemned to eternal hell until the second coming of Christ and then He will decide.
Even if this maybe true which obviously i do not believe , where are the OT scriptures ? , because i am sure ET was just as important to be made known before BC as christians have made it today.
Even if this maybe true which obviously i do not believe , where are the OT scriptures ? , because i am sure ET was just as important to be made known before BC as christians have made it today.
You are saying you dont beleive in the second coming of Christ?
Never said he looks upon or accepts sin. God does everything through Love because that what he is. His wrath, judgment and righteousness is through LOVE.
It isn't showing his "side" He judges the wicked out of Love so they shall hear his voice.
I do not see a passage that says God is willing that some shall perish. God is not willing is what I read.
Of course, that's why God is not willing that the wicked perish.
God draws all men to Christ, if it is over because they died in the Flood, then God is a liar. since God is not a liar, then whatever the truth is about the flood, those people will be drawn to Christ. Because Jesus said, if He is lifted up from the earth (he was lifted up from the earth) he will draw all men unto himself. He gave a ransom for ALL (even those in the flood) and that will be testified in due time (at the time of Gods choosing for each one)
Yes a Judge from inherant love.
You wrote all of this to say that God is love. You don't get it, I never said that God is not love. It is obvious of that. You keep saying the same thing over, do you have a bad memory. I never said that God wasn't love. I am saying that God will judge the wicked and some have already been punished and destroyed. Oh, I'm sure you will come up with a one page essay, of the same thing God is love.
So let me start it for you God is love:Just because God is love, doesn't mean that He want destroy the wicked.
You are saying you dont beleive in the second coming of Christ?
I have no OT scriptures to satisfy you.
Stop trying to convince someone who is not listening to you. Matt 7:6 Jesus said there is a time to stop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828
Y
So let me start it for you God is love:Just because God is love, doesn't mean that He want destroy the wicked.
Amen!
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Indeed my friend ... Indeed.
