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Old 10-02-2009, 09:16 AM
Status: " Attacks only in self defense is more than 1 person's right" (set 8 days ago)
 
9,349 posts, read 4,755,281 times
Reputation: 1012
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
I do not have any information as to what the Demons know or do not know...

However there is a BIG difference in "knowing" and "Believing".

Many people admit that there likely was a guy named "Jesus" in the past, but they are not believers in Him.

many people admit that the stories about Jesus might be true, and that Jesus was "a good man"....but they are not believers in Him.

many people admit that the Bible speaks of a moment in history where Jesus appears to be alive after his resurrection....but they don't put their trust is such stories...they are not believers in such stories...
They are like the land that receives the good seed, but the wind and the birds take the seeds away.

But the believer is like the good land that when if receives the good seed, soon sees the seed grow and become tall..
From the thief on the cross, to me, to Billy Graham and to all us Christians, we are the land that received the seed with gladness and saw it take hold in our hearts and grow.

Thus, our Christian faith hangs on one and only one event in all of human history.....the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

If there is no truth to the resurrection, then I will no longer be a Christian...

(none of us are)
to be more precise...the bodily resurrection.
God can only physically raise the dead and he will.
Jesus said he would raise himself (physically) and he did.
To be saying that, Jesus claimed to be God. A Christian who believes Jesus is God, will believe in the physical ressurection. They go hand in hand

Jesus claimed that as the result of the physical resurrection, he had the power to destroy the unbeliever's soul and body, and offer the believer's the opposite.


.
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Old 10-02-2009, 09:24 AM
 
3,067 posts, read 2,265,073 times
Reputation: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
then why should I believe you and risk my soul when someone else has added criteria and talking about avoiding the same end result.
I dont really understand this question?

But let me state my views again and see if in this answer I also answer your question....


The Christian faith is not a healing faith with Jesus tagged on to the end of it.

The christian faith is not a speaking in tongues faith with Jesus tagged on to the end of it.

The Christian faith is not a good works faith that helps you earn your salvation by doing, or saying the right things or code words.


We are, and have always been...a faith that is centered around one AND ONLY ONE historical event.....The resurrection Of Jesus Christ!

all the rest of the crap...
all the keeping of the Commandments
All the do's and the do not's
All the rules on who has a valid baptism and who does not
All the systems,. the music, the buildings, the cash.
All the outreaches , all the ministry, all the youth programs.
The whole Christian pile of "busyness" that so keep us in the news...

all that crap is secondary.

Oh im not saying it has no merit.
and Im not saying that such things are worthless.

But at best such things only hint, and are but a slight outward sign of a christian life.

Underneath it all, supporting and up lifting the whole Christian religion is one and only one thing...."The Resurrection of Jesus Christ"

If the Bible story of the resurrection of Jesus Christ is a lie, then it don't matter a hoot how high of a religious pile of crap you have in your life to keep you busy....You are lost.
and not only lost, but your many faith teachings to support your faith are going to look very silly....and sad.

In deed, if the resurrection is a myth, then we of all the people who have ever lived deserve to be pitied.


Um, there, did that at all address your questions?
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Old 10-02-2009, 09:31 AM
 
3,067 posts, read 2,265,073 times
Reputation: 231
by the way, this is some of my best stuff on the forum...
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
I dont really understand this question?

But let me state my views again and see if in this answer I also answer your question....


The Christian faith is not a healing faith with Jesus tagged on to the end of it.

The christian faith is not a speaking in tongues faith with Jesus tagged on to the end of it.

The Christian faith is not a good works faith that helps you earn your salvation by doing, or saying the right things or code words.


We are, and have always been...a faith that is centered around one AND ONLY ONE historical event.....The resurrection Of Jesus Christ!

all the rest of the crap...
all the keeping of the Commandments
All the do's and the do not's
All the rules on who has a valid baptism and who does not
All the systems,. the music, the buildings, the cash.
All the outreaches , all the ministry, all the youth programs.
The whole Christian pile of "busyness" that so keep us in the news...

all that crap is secondary.

Oh im not saying it has no merit.
and Im not saying that such things are worthless.

But at best such things only hint, and are but a slight outward sign of a christian life.

Underneath it all, supporting and up lifting the whole Christian religion is one and only one thing...."The Resurrection of Jesus Christ"

If the Bible story of the resurrection of Jesus Christ is a lie, then it don't matter a hoot how high of a religious pile of crap you have in your life to keep you busy....You are lost.
and not only lost, but your many faith teachings to support your faith are going to look very silly....and sad.

In deed, if the resurrection is a myth, then we of all the people who have ever lived deserve to be pitied.


Um, there, did that at all address your questions?
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Old 10-02-2009, 09:33 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 3,299,588 times
Reputation: 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Um, there, did that at all address your questions?
Not really. But it's ok, maybe we need to start back at square one again anyway.


The resurrection being a lie perhaps makes the bible invalid and nothing within it is trustworthy, I understand that.


But how does the resurrection being true negate a requirement to speak in tongues? Where in scripture do I find validation that by believing you I am not risking eternal damnation?
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Old 10-02-2009, 09:43 AM
 
12,491 posts, read 6,282,016 times
Reputation: 2080
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
mike, now in one sentence?
One sentence? Me? Impossible!!!
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Old 10-02-2009, 09:46 AM
 
3,067 posts, read 2,265,073 times
Reputation: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post

But how does the resurrection being true negate a requirement to speak in tongues? Where in scripture do I find validation that by believing you I am not risking eternal damnation?
Lets make a list of all the crap we learn in Sunday school.

Speaking in tongues
healing
teaching
Guiding others
singing
witnessing
helping the poor
helping the sick
praying
giving
listening
proclaiming
baptizing
outreach
love
tenderness
calmness
worship
praise
Prophets
teachers

all this is meaningless if you don't center your Christian faith around the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

If the resurrection is not real to you, then all of the list above is rather silly.

But if the resurrection is real, then all of that list become outward signs of the inner Grace that God gave onto us who believe in the resurrection.

Nothing on that list can save you.
Only God's grace though your faith in the risen lord does that.

Thus at best, the list is what we might call, the secondary outward signs that God has moved in a person's heart.

The faith I speak of saves alone, but saving faith is never alone.

I expect that when a person is saved though faith, that the natural follow up to this is that the person will do works.

Sometimes the only work allowed in the situation is a simple confession of personal faith in the risen Lord, (The thief on the cross)

Other times there is a great deal of noise and tongues of fire on people's heads. (the early church in ACTS)

But underneath it all?...the very same principle is always found.
Faith in the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Only because of that, are we Christians.

Last edited by alanMolstad; 10-02-2009 at 09:56 AM..
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Old 10-02-2009, 10:00 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 3,299,588 times
Reputation: 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Lets make a list of all the crap we learn in Sunday school.

Speaking in tongues
healing
teaching
Guiding others
singing
witnessing
helping the poor
helping the sick
praying
giving
listening
proclaiming
baptizing
outreach
love
tenderness
calmness
worship
praise
Prophets
teachers

I'm with ya so far.

Quote:

all this is meaningless if you don't center your Christian faith around the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Meaningless to what end?



Quote:


If the resurrection is not real to you, then all of the list above is rather silly.
Well, not entirely, it can be seen that Jesus was an example of a godly life worth living for God, I do not see how the resurrection of Christ has to be the cornerstone for what is silly or not.


Quote:

But if the resurrection is real, then all of that list become outward sings of the inner Grace that God gave onto us who believe in the resurrection.
Or that list is someone believing that they should do it because they believe it pleases God. Is pleasing God then negated and meaningless?

Quote:

Nothing on that list can save you.
Only God's grace though your faith in the risen lord does that.
Well, I certainly believe that it is resonable that God could resurrect Jesus, but now you have added things. Grace and faith. I can take a logical approach without either one being necessary. So this is the slope I am talking about, you started off saying ONLY believing in the resurrection of Jesus Christ is necessary. I believe it based on simple logic alone. So why now is there grace and faith involved?
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Old 10-02-2009, 10:07 AM
 
3,067 posts, read 2,265,073 times
Reputation: 231
The Question :"Meaningless to what end?..."

The Answer : "I never knew you"
(Ok you have to remember the verse, but trust me it's a great answer)
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Old 10-02-2009, 10:11 AM
 
3,067 posts, read 2,265,073 times
Reputation: 231
The Question: "Is pleasing God then negated and meaningless?"

The Answer : yes,
(see answer above)

I know that there are some who can point to a great zeal in their lives to please God...
But unless your zeal is centered around the faith you have placed in the resurrection, your faith is meaningless....

a fast ship is rather pointless without a good rudder.
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Old 10-02-2009, 10:11 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 3,299,588 times
Reputation: 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
The Question :"Meaningless to what end?..."

The Answer : "I never knew you"
(Ok you have to remember the verse, but trust me it's a great answer)

Yes it is a good answer if someone takes that list and says "I am saved because I did the list" indeed, you are correct and I agree with you.


But the rest of what your trying to teach then brings a question. The verse that you use here is talking about people who did things "IN" Jesus name. Can it be seen that they did NOT believe in him as the risen Lord?

Over what premise now did a person doing the "list" in Jesus name, then be told to depart?
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